The Official Supernatural: “Our Father Who Aren’t In Heaven” (15.08) Live Recap Thread

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Recap: We get a Then recap heavy on Adam (remember him?) and the season so far, including Chuck going dark and Eileen coming back from the dead.

Cut to Now. In a casino, while Henry Ford’s 1971 soul ballad “Take Me For What I Am” plays on the soundtrack, a young cocktail waitress in a nice silver dress is fearfully picking her way past and over the dead bodies of her patrons, bosses, and coworkers. She’s carrying a drink on a tray to a man at the slot machines who is winning every time. It’s Chuck.

When he takes the drink from her, he asks her if she laid off putting in so much rum this time. She says yes with a strangely optimistic smile, then closes her eyes briefly in terror when Chuck comments that’s good because she wouldn’t want to make him “cranky.” He tells her to “keep ’em comin’.” As she heads back to the bar, we get an overhead shot of all the dead people in the casino.

Cue title cards.

Cut to Eileen getting the worst of it in a back alley fight with a werewolf. She loses her pistol, but manages to get away in time to pull a very large knife. When she lunges back out, though, she almost gets Sam (and shouts his name in irritation). He blocks the blade and she shoves him to one side, just in time to stab the werewolf directly behind him. Sam looks a little winded by nearly getting stabbed.

Eileen quickly susses out that Sam was shadowing her (because she hadn’t left a note she was going on a hunt). While she declares this sweet, she also calls him out for being “overprotective.” Sam’s pissy response betrays an awful lot about his true feelings regarding gender roles.

Eileen just shrugs and walks off. Sadly, this will be one of the last times we see her being an independent badass.

Back at the Bunker, she’s having a hamburger, while Sam eats a healthy chicken salad. Dean comes in with something wrapped in a cloth. He thinks he has the solution they’ve been looking for to contain Chuck. He sets it on the table and flips open the cloth. It’s the Demon Tablet.

Sam is skeptical, Eileen confused. This makes possible an infodumpy reminder for the audience about what the Demon Tablet is and how someone (Kevin doesn’t get a mention) once translated it.

Dean’s theory, in a nutshell, is that Chuck dictated the Tablets so that humans could use them against demons and angels if he were “out of commission.” Dean thinks that since Chuck dictated these before he left Heaven, the implication of their existence is that Chuck is not “invincible.”

Astonished, Sam comments that Chuck has “an Achilles Heel.” There follows a rather stupid “joke” at Dean’s expense that Dean doesn’t recognize the term – though Ackles mostly turns it around by implying Dean is just messing with Sam’s head.

When Eileen asks if they can read the tablet, Dean says they can’t. But of course he knows someone who can.

Donatello is not at all happy to see Castiel show up at his door and tries to hide inside his house. Naturally, this doesn’t work and he ends up back at the Bunker, whining at TFW about how he really doesn’t want to get involved in any of this.

The Brothers explain that they want to lock Chuck up the way he once locked up his sister Amara. When Donatello asks why they don’t just kill him, Sam revives season 11 canon that if Chuck is killed, that will disrupt the balance of the SPNverse and it will die. So, that canon’s still a thing. They just want a way to lock Chuck up so the balance is still there, but he can’t destroy the world.

With a sigh (and a whole lot of fried chicken), Donatello gets down to it, so closely watched by Dean, Sam and Castiel that it makes him even squirellier. But eventually, he does find something. In Metatron’s glosses on Chuck’s dictation, the late, unlamented scribe talks about a “secret fear” that Chuck shares with no one. Unfortunately, the scribe does not add what that fear is.

Castiel points out that Lucifer was already cast down by the time Chuck dictated his tablets (this actually makes sense, as Lucifer was cast down for creating demons and Donatello is currently working on a Demon Tablet). So, the favorite at the time would have been Michael. However, just as Donatello is about to consider his job well-done and leave, Dean points out that Michael is in Hell. Well … except that Belphegor told them the Cage was one of the doors blown open down there. So, he might be out now.

Anyhoo, in the middle of a rant about how complicated the Brothers’ lives are, Donatello is possessed by Chuck, who gives them a warning to back off, with a sinister chuckle, threatening everyone they love. He should maybe take his own advice. Sam and Dean wouldn’t be fighting him in the first place if he hadn’t backed them into the corner of wanting to kill them and the SPNverse with them. They don’t have any choice but to fight back.

Castiel checks the warding (which is intact) and Dean suggests Donatello leave. Grabbing his coat and his bucket of chicken, the Prophet scampers off.

What TFW didn’t say to him was that they didn’t want him there because they now know Chuck could use him to spy on them. Dean says they can’t back down on the plan. Chuck would just kill all their loved ones eventually, anyway. Sam agrees, but Castiel has reservations about going to Hell to talk to Michael. Sarcastically, Dean tells him that if he’s that afraid to do it, he can just stay home. Castiel’s pissed, but Dean doesn’t care.

Later, Sam and Eileen make up the ingredients in a bowl, while Castiel and Dean watch. Dean then cuts his hand for the blood (it’s not explained why Dean, specifically, needs to do this). Castiel heals Dean’s hand and Dean gives him a perfunctory thank-you. As Eileen watches, Sam says the spell (which was originally Rowena’s), and Dean, Sam and Castiel put their hands on the bowl. A wind blows up, with pink lightning, and they disappear (the effect is very Charmed and I don’t mean the reboot). They reappear in Hell.

Castiel leads the way, since he was the one last down there a few episodes ago. They encounter some demons in female hosts. Dean tries to explain that they’re looking for whoever’s in charge, not trouble. Instead, he Sam and Castiel proceed to get their asses kicked in a comical and completely unrealistic way (at one point, Dean actually asks if any of them are winning). Really, Show? Why the hell do you pull this stupid pseudo-feminist crap?

Anyhoo, a woman’s voice shouts, “STOP!” in a Scottish accent and the demons back off in a hurry. The woman is Rowena, who has shown up with an entourage and in a flaming red pantsuit straight out of Saturday Night Fever. Go disco.

It turns out that since she died and (of course) ended up in Hell, Rowena has taken charge of the place and now rules in her son’s stead (“No one hands you anything, darlin’,” she drawls to Sam. “I took it!”). It also turns out that she is still Team Free Will. So, when the others (mostly Dean and some Sam) explain to her what’s going on about Chuck and that they need to find Michael, she bellows at her entourage to go find Michael, which they promptly march off to do. As the demons leave, she gives TFW a conspiratorial wink.

Back at the Bunker, Eileen is flipping through a book while literally keeping the flame alive for the rest of TFW (didn’t this used to be Rowena’s job? How ironic) when she gets some sort of Skype call from another Hunter, a woman who is quite shocked to find out that Eileen is alive. She’d heard Eileen died. Eileen just says, “It didn’t take.”

The other woman, Sue, once hunted briefly with Eileen and asks her to help her track down a traveling vampire nest. Eileen demures, saying she’s busy at the moment, but may join up later. After she hangs up, she sprinkles some herbs on the Giant Hell Train Bowl to keep the fire burning.

In Hell, Rowena is enjoying a nice single malt while sitting on her (probably formerly her son’s, though his preferred one topside had a lion motif, not cobras) throne. When Sam starts to apologize to her, she cuts him off, saying that actually, it’s the best thing that’s ever happened to her, so bygones. Sure, she misses some stuff, like Amazon delivery and “flesh on flesh sex” (the latter gets a double-take from Dean), but she’s quite enjoying being Queen.

To get him out of the room, she has Sam go get her a refill. Then she starts doing couples counseling for Dean and Castiel, who clearly aren’t getting along (sigh, really Nepotism Duo? This was the reason you brought her back? So, she could play Yenta for two male characters?). After mulling over her few regrets (notably, her failing her son), and how death is too late to take them back, she tells them to “fix it.” Sam returns with Rowena’s freshened-up drink, just as a demon enters and timidly informs his queen that Michael is no longer in Hell. They don’t know where he is.

But we do. Cut to Jaci’s Red Wagon, a 50s-style diner where Adam is getting a burger and totally enjoying it. He says he hasn’t “seen a burger in ten years” (again with these writers totally forgetting about the Hell time dilation thing, which was a major plot point back in the day). As Adam also gets a pizza, he talks to Michael, sitting across the table from him. They have an oddly amiable relationship (so much for being tortured in Hell). Adam is bitter about his older brothers leaving him to “rot” in the Cage (ignoring the part where he betrayed them), while Michael is unsure where to go once he parts ways with his old vessel (if he parts ways with his old vessel). Heaven doesn’t seem to appeal with his brothers gone and his father still MIA.

Back at the Bunker, Dean is calling Donatello and putting out feelers to see if he’s felt anything that might lead them to Michael (without mentioning Michael). Sam has been trying to find signs of Michael online, with no success.

Dean proceeds to pump Sam for info about Eileen’s whereabouts and I wonder why the show passed up the really obvious opportunity here for Dean to grapple with his possession by an alternate version of Michael only last year just so he can play Yenta for Sam and Eileen. Again. The only mention Dean makes is of recently being in “a dark place” before getting up and congratulating Sam on something neither of them could accomplish before.

Dean mentions having tried to live with Lisa and Ben (not mentioning that it was for over a year and that he was pretty successful at it, despite being miserable). Sam talks about having tried and failed at the domestic life in such a vague way that I’m not sure if the writers remember that Sam never told Dean about Amelia – or that she was married.

Cut back to the diner, where Adam is talking about getting a job. when Lilith shows up. Michael’s eyes glow. He’s not pleased. When he comments that she’s dead, she says she was brought back by God. Michael is skeptical that his father would send “an infernal speck of bile” like a demon to “fetch” him and he doesn’t “fetch,” anyway.

At first, Lilith casually brushes this insult off, pointing out that they once worked together to bring about the Apocalypse and make God come back, which didn’t work, but here He is, anyway. But when Michael balks, she gets irritated, grasping his wrist and saying she can’t go back without him: “I can’t fail Him.”

This proves to be a mistake. After a moment of hesitation, Michael’s eyes glow and blasts Lilith into white light atoms, leaving behind only a pile of clothes. When he looks around afterward, he sees how terrified the others in the diner are. With a sigh, he says, “Remember nothing” and snaps his fingers. Their memories wiped of the incident, the other patrons and employees go on with their business. Michael, now back in the driver’s seat, pushes away the remaining desert Adam was eating.

However, Donatello, washing a glass at home, drops it in the sink (where it shatters) and cries out. He felt the blast of power from Michael. He calls Dean, but has trouble saying where Michael is. He can now see Michael every time Michael moves and Michael is moving around a lot. He finally notes that Michael has stopped – in Cairo, Egypt. “Excuse me. I need bourbon,” he says and puts down the phone.

Dean tells Castiel, who is behind him out of focus, that they know where Michael is, “but we can’t get to him in time before he moves again.”

Castiel comes into focus: “Then we make him come to us.”

Castiel sits in a chair upstairs next to a chessboard and prays to Michael. He tells Michael that he understands he’s “been through a terrible ordeal” and tries to fill him in on the situation with Heaven and Chuck. He asks to ally with him, saying that God has turned into a supervillain.

Later, outside the Bunker, Castiel senses someone that night. Michael flies in. Castiel asks Michael if he remembers him.

Michael: You called me “Assbutt” and set me on fire. And then you helped send me to Hell.

I’d call that a ‘yes.’

Michael is highly skeptical about turning on his own father. He asks if Castiel is seeking forgiveness or has “come to beg.”

Castiel [flicking a lighter and firing up a ring of holy oil around Michael]: Oh, I didn’t come to beg.

Two shadowy figures appear on the other side of a plastic curtain. They enter. It’s Sam and Dean. Dean pulls out a set of angel handcuffs. Michael is not amused.

In the Bunker, Michael opines that this move is “stupid,” even for TFW (my, he needs to catch up, doesn’t he?). Dean shrugs this off, but it’s Sam Michael focuses on. Lord, I am so tired of seeing Dean’s unaddressed alt-Michael trauma (which occurred only last season) once again ignored in favor of Sam’s boring-ass Hell-pain, which was resolved all the way back in season seven. Move on from that, Show.

Michael still refuses to believe that Chuck has broke bad. Sam tries the Puppy Dog Eyes o’ Doom and Michael is not even remotely impressed. When Sam says that they were “wrong” to leave Adam in the Cage, Michael lets Adam take over.

Adam is not as nearly as hostile and certainly not insane. It’s heartbreaking to watch Dean realize that “Michael lets you … talk? I mean, he lets you … be?” Oh, hey, the writers remembered, after all.

Adam says that since he and Michael were alone in the Cage together, they came to “an understanding.”

Michael barges back in and tells them that he doesn’t believe them about Chuck, even though he himself got a taste of Chuck’s high-handedness when Lilith showed up. Dean points out that Michael’s belief that Chuck will bring in Paradise is not borne out by Chuck’s actions. Chuck gets bored with Paradise. As Michael grows angrier and angrier at their attempts to convince him, Adam comes back in and tells them that they need to back off. Michael’s “not listening.”

Dean steps forward and tells Adam that what they did to him was bad and can’t be taken back. Adam suggests that Dean could start with “I’m sorry.” Why just Dean, though? Why does Sam always get let off the hook for this sort of thing? I mean, look at how Rowena was all hunky-dory with Sam killing her earlier in the episode. Episodes and episodes wasted on endless Sam mangst and in the end, she just let it slide.

Anyhoo, Adam ends up alone, trying to talk Michael down. He points out that Sam and Dean did try to warn him about saying yes to Michael, and that they are sincere in their efforts to save and protect the world. He points out that if they’re saying Chuck has gone off the rails, it’s because they believe he has and … they’re probably right.

When Michael bitterly suggests that Adam has forgiven his brothers, he snaps back, “Oh, hell, no!” (though it does sound, at the very least, as though he’s willing to bury the hatchet and go with the bygones). He just says that maybe Michael, who points out he’s spent billions of years with Chuck, who created him with a thought, is wrong about his father.

But Michael is still obsessed with being the Good Son, even though Adam points out that “parents keep secrets.” Michael is afraid even to ask Chuck what his game plan is.

Back in the Library, Eileen is talking to Sue on not-Skype. Sue is strongly urging Eileen to come help her with the vampire nest before they get away. Does anybody not believe this is an obvious trap? I mean, besides Eileen? Especially when Sue apparently gets attacked?

Well, it appears Sam does. When Eileen goes to his room and tells him her “friend” (whom she barely knows) is in trouble, he comes with her without a single thought to checking out whether it’s real.

Castiel visits Michael, who is truculent. Castiel doesn’t even try to be nice. He “confesses” that he never really liked Michael, even when he “was just another angel.” Castiel, “paraphrasing a friend” (Dean, no doubt), says that Michael was “haughty” and “had an entire oak tree shoved up your ass.”

He ups the ante by saying that he pities Michael, who thought he was the “star,” God’s favorite, but was only a bit player. He leans close when he says this.

Predictably, Michael doesn’t respond well. He grabs Castiel, smacks his head against the table between them, tosses him over it, and then grabs him in a headlock from behind. But it is (of course) manipulation. Castiel was using a ruse to get close to Michael – his referencing Dean was the first clue. He manages to grab Michael by the head and forcibly show him his memories. These include basically a recap of Chuck the Writer, and they leave Michael red-faced and devastated.

Afterward, Dean enters the kitchen where Castiel is, on his way to get a beer from the fridge. Dean comments that maybe Castiel “went too far” and too fast with Michael. Michael has been “on lockdown” for a long time, after all. He then asks about Michael’s current condition. Castiel calls it “very distraught.”

Dean [impatiently]: Yeah, but what exactly did he say?

Castiel: “Leave. Get out. I want you dead.” We didn’t bond.

Castiel asks where Sam is and Dean mentions the hunt Sam went on with Eileen. Right at that moment, Sam and Eileen are arriving in an underground parking garage to find Sue’s van deserted with the doors wide open and no sign of a fight with vampires anywhere. Sue then shows up, acting shady, but she’s actually Chuck in disguise. Yup. Trap.

Back at the Bunker, Dean and Castiel’s rather stilted conversation (no, they haven’t “fixed” it, yet) is interrupted by an earthquake. It’s Michael. When they visit him, they find him now quite ready to cooperate. He feels betrayed by Chuck, especially by the part that he wasn’t even unique, that there were other versions of him, all abandoned by Chuck.

It turns out that Michael knows the spell used to lock up Amara back in the day. He says it can work on Chuck if Daddy is still weak and he’s willing to share the spell. Most of the ingredients are easy and already in the Bunker – myrrh, cassia and rock rose – but one is exceedingly difficult and dangerous to find. It’s called a Leviathan Blossom and it can only be found in – you got it – Purgatory. Dean cocks his head in an “oh, no” moment right before Michael even says it, knowing where this is going.

Michael snaps his fingers and makes a rift appear to Purgatory. Just like that. He tells them it will stay open for 12 hours. Then he politely asks them to take off the cuffs, which Dean rather reluctantly does.

Dean asks Michael if he’s coming with them, but nope, this is where Michael gets off the plot bus. As he turns to go, though, Dean asks to speak to Adam one last time. Adam comes out with a blue glow of the eyes, and Dean apologizes on behalf of both him and Sam for abandoning him: “You’re a good man. You didn’t deserve that.”

Adam’s face twists, almost in pain, as he ruefully understands that Dean has finally given him what he wanted most … and it doesn’t really change things. “Since when do we get what we deserve?” he says. “Good luck.” With a glance at Castiel, he leaves.

Dean and Castiel both turn to look at the rift.


The show dipped slightly to a 0.3/1 and dropped to 1.09 million in audience.

The preview for the next episode, “The Trap” (15.09) is up (spoiler alert: Looks like Sam ends up tied to yet another chair). The show returns on March 16 with Episode 5.12 (“Galaxy Brain”).

Review: I’ll start by reiterating what I’ve said in the past – I don’t think this season’s Chuck is Chuck. I think it’s the Empty Entity masquerading as Chuck. In fact, I don’t think we’ve seen the “real” Chuck since the end of season 11. Whether we are indeed getting a God-broke-bad storyline or one where the Empty Entity has imprisoned Chuck in the Empty (the being we saw Jack and Billie with at the very end of last season), at some point the show needs to show a card and explain why Chuck has changed so radically, to the point where he now wants to kill off his own creation.

It irritates me that we’re already 40% into the season (sigh, no, Twitter, this is not the halfway point, not even close. Calling it a “midseason finale” is just marketing bullshit) and still, we’re no further along in what’s going on with God than we were at the end of last season. Because of this, the season 15 mytharc has felt especially flabby, and has floundered and flapped about like a fish out of water. Put the damned fish back in the river and drop a few reveals, Show. It’s way past time. Us fans are getting bored out here.

But getting back to the Empty Entity theory – if Chuck is the EE, masquerading as Chuck, we already have part of the puzzle. The show has been awfully quiet about the Empty Entity this season, not even mentioning that Castiel never told the Winchesters about his deal with the EE (another lie from a dude who really needs to stop lying and blaming everyone else for his mistakes). That’s a big thing to drop, but hey, they’ve dropped big plots like that before. The Veil? What Veil?

More damning is that Chuck’s personality change isn’t that radical if he’s not Chuck and especially if he is the EE. His new personality fits the EE on the rampage in the SPNverse very well. He’s angry, nihilistic and petty. Sure, the old version of Chuck could be a bit petty and didn’t like to be challenged, but he generally liked his creations (and interacting with them in a reasonably benevolent way as long as they kissed his ass). He was willing to get locked away on their behalf in season 11, as long as his sister pinky-swore not to annihilate the SPNverse. So, wanting to end it now (because that’s what will be the actual result of the Brothers killing each other) is a polar-opposite switch for an eternal being tens of billions (at least) years old, in what is, to him, less than an eyeblink of time.

But it’s not at all a big switch for a being whose main stated purpose was to go back to his eternal sleep. If everything’s dead and gone, he can do that again. Plus, this was an entity that invaded Heaven to claim Jack as its own, and what did “Chuck” want, first and foremost (aside from assassinating Dean Winchester) last season? Jack, both dead and in the Empty.

Even the relative weakness makes sense. Chuck last season was weaker than before, even before Sam shot him. He had to follow a story and his creatures could still rebel against that story (not even just Dean). That would make sense. Just because the EE is supreme in his own realm, that doesn’t mean he has omnipotent (or even omniscient) powers in the SPNverse proper. And Chuck being EE even explains why he can easily bring back a character like Lilith from the Empty, when that was apparently a rather difficult thing to do in the past.

So, yeah, my money’s on a big reveal down the road (hopefully, not too far, because there ought to be a lot of story after that, not a backlog of wheel-spinning in front of it) that this version of Chuck is really the EE. But even if Chuck is Chuck, the show still owes us a reason why he had such a huge change of heart after season 11, even if it’s as lame as growing disenchanted and falling out with his sister.

I had somewhat mixed feelings about the episode overall. For a Nepotism Duo script, it was one of their better ones, though that still means it was pretty daft and shallow. I’d have argued that the quickie visit to Hell diminished Hell as a terrifying and remote realm (especially the Nep Duo once again forgetting that Hell moves on a different time scale than earth), but that ship sailed a long time ago and was torpedoed largely by these very writers. Ditto the quickie way to Purgatory and rehash of the season seven finale cliffhanger at the end of the episode.

I did enjoy Rowena’s return. Yeah, that was daft, too (boy, these idiots do love their ridiculously overpowered Witch Sue characters), but I like Rowena and Ruth Connell managed to sell it with a hefty dose of implied BDSM. I had a feeling she would return as the Queen of Hell and it was pretty satisfying to see it, even if it doesn’t change the part where they fridged a powerful female character to motivate a male one, or that this is likely a stand-in for what they would have had Crowley do in the last season, had Mark Sheppard been willing to return.

I had more mixed feelings about Michael and Adam. Unsurprisingly, I wasn’t thrilled to see Dean’s Michael storyline once again shoved aside for another bland guest character. Dean’s still-unresolved trauma from last season was scarcely addressed beyond a few quick lines. Even then, that was mostly Ackles’ emphasis, not so much the lines themselves.

I do have to give Jake Abel some kudos, though, for portraying Michael and Adam talking to themselves, and keeping it all separate. That took some skill. Obviously, Abel is (and looks) a decade older now, but that went well with Adam!Michael having been stuck in a prison for a very long time and it synced up better with Michael’s age than in “Swan Song,” when Abel looked way too young to play an ancient archangel.

The writers even addressed, however, briefly, Adam’s anger toward his brothers and later, rueful understanding that he ended up in Hell through his own choices, not theirs. This reminded me a bit of this week’s (episode five) reveal about Raffi in Star Trek: Picard. Raffi had spent most of the season so far feeling like a victim and blaming others for her misfortunes. Now I love Michelle Hurd (stopped watching SVU cold after the stupid way they wrote her out), but I was getting a little tired of Raffi’s pity party for one.

Boy, did she get checked on that this week. The effect, interestingly enough, was to make her more sympathetic. Only regulars on Star Trek shows get to have non-lethal arcs involving layers and regrets. The tragic thing was that she was (devastatingly) right, but she was also (equally devastatingly) wrong. You could say this about two other female characters this week, though I only sympathized with one of them (hint: it was the one with the blasters).

In Supernatural, taking the route of having an older, wiser Adam with regrets, who understood that he made choices that led to his being in the Cage, instead of a rabid madman supervillain, was a wise one. It gave him extra layers. It gave him (and Michael) depth and motivation. His willingness to negotiate a truce between his brothers and Michael showed a growth he hadn’t previously demonstrated, as did his willingness to hear Dean’s apology.

The truth is that by saying yes to Michael, Adam came very close to aiding and abetting the end of the world. That he recognized this and accepted responsibility for it made him sympathetic to the audience without making his brothers less sympathetic.

There were some inconsistencies in the writing that didn’t work for me, though. For a start, making Adam so subdued and Michael not really crazy was part of a pattern in the story of characters being less traumatized and more reasonable than you might expect. This is what led to Dean’s alt-Michael trauma being ignored. Again. So, in that sense, a lot of good potential drama was ignored in favor of a quick resolution.

Then there were some logic fails. In the diner, Michael is clearly angry at his father to the point of blasting Chuck’s messenger (Lilith) to ash. Yet, later on, he refuses to give up Chuck to TFW because he’s still loyal to him. And there’s no reason to believe he is lying in either case. That progression doesn’t track very well.

He also talks about being surprised that there even is a multiverse (alt-Michael implied he had been, too) and this doesn’t make sense. Michael is almost at the level of Death. Why wouldn’t he know that there were other versions of him when he can just make a rift to another realm within his own timeline with a snap of his fingers (boy, Raphael sure would have liked to be able to do that)?

Michael fares a lot better than Lilith, though. Poor thing, why did they even bother to bring her back? All the other “dead” characters have changed, like Rowena and Michael and Kevin (who is not even brought up this week, despite being the Prophet who translated the Demon Tablet).

Not Lilith. She is exactly the same as just before she died in season four (and it’s not the actress’ fault because she plays that version on point). This makes her perpetually behind the eight-ball and tragically unhip, about like the EVOL ghosts from the first couple of episodes this season, except that Lilith was once one of the show’s most memorable villains.

I was kinda relieved to see her go so soon while wondering why they bothered to bring her back at all, just to ruin her by making her a one-dimensional panto villain. They turned her into a bad joke and only she didn’t realize she was the punchline.

They could have done something with her resentment of being so directly at Chuck’s beck and call, but she didn’t seem to care enough about it for the audience to care with her. And in the end, we learned nothing new about her, her motivations, or her origins. They even dropped the baby blood angle. What was the point, Show?

The Kripke Years

Season 1

Season 2

Season 3

Season 4

Season 5

The Gamble Years

Season 6 (with Kripke)

Season 7

The Carver Years

Season 8

Season 9

Season 10

Season 11

The Dabb Years

Season 12

Season 13

Season 14

Season 15

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20 thoughts on “The Official Supernatural: “Our Father Who Aren’t In Heaven” (15.08) Live Recap Thread”

  1. So looks like per Dabb we are going to have a Cas centric episode, a Weechesters centric episode, an episode about the origins of the MOL bunker, a return of Jody and the Waywards and another I can’t remember so that’s 5 out of the 9? left? Will the remaining episodes feature our main characters? You remember them don’t you Dabb? The two guys who play Sam and Dean who have carried this show on their combined shoulders for 15 years? Can we at least get that? We have such precious few episodes left. Good God. I mean, Chuck.

    The only way I’d like to see a Cas centric episode at this point is if he dies. For good. Another angel episode? Oh goody, I can hardly wait.

    While background on the MOL bunker might have been interesting in a past season why wait until the final one unless they are planning on destroying the bunker? That one I’d rather not see.

    Waywards? I could live with never seeing them again.

  2. If your theory is correct, and we haven’t been seeing the real Chuck this season, does that mean he is still benevolent? This could possibly be the “safe” option, since God is traditionally regarded as good and incorruptible. Then again, the God of the SPNverse doesn’t quite correlate to non-SPNverse, monotheistic conceptions of God.

    But if the real Chuck is somehow trapped in the Empty, he must have ventured into that domain. You would think he would have avoided it like the plague, as he is vulnerable there.

    Has it already been established that the Shadow (as EE is often called) can exit its realm?

    Finally, as Supernatural is winding down, which prophet do you like better, Kevin or Donatello?

    1. EE managed to invade and effectively take over Heaven, so … maybe?

      Somebody said (might have been Dabb) that they weren’t allowed to kill off God in season 11, so I’m skeptical they could get away with a true God Broke Bad storyline all the way to the end.

      I like Donatello, but he needs to get his soul back and retire. And Kevin needs to get resurrected or go to Heaven. Or something.

  3. Hey, I just thought of something: maybe Chuck is the Light and Amara is the Darkness the Empty Entity could be NOTHINGNESS. Another elemental from ‘the beginning.’

  4. I also liked Jake Abel’s take on ‘duplicating’ which I have not seen since The End.

    I hope ‘this’ Michael will help them again in the storyline.

  5. I ‘want’ to believe that Chuck is actually EE but my problem with that is when he went to see Amara she responded as if he were her brother. And left his ass.

    So I have to believe that Amara — the equal of God — would know who was who. BUT if EE is the equal to Chuck and Amara and could somehow trap Chuck in The Empty I guess he could fool Amara.

    1. Amara herself said in season 11 that her brother could fool her. She was stronger, but he was more subtle. The Empty Entity is largely an unknown (aside from being a thoroughgoing nutjob), but we do know it is primordial and that the Empty is older than Amara and Chuck. It’s implied that Amara and Chuck were born in the Empty. So, whatever entity represents the Empty also represents the much-larger primordial void from which Amara and Chuck were born.

        1. EE [to Castiel]: Before God and Amara, Creation, Destruction, Heaven, Hell, your precious little earth, what was there?
          Castiel: Nothing.
          EE: Yes, that’s right! Nothing. Nothing but Empty. And you are soaking in it. Angels and demons, you all come here when you die.

          It’s not known whether Chuck is vulnerable in the Empty, but EE bluntly states, “I’m the only one that has any pull here [in the Empty]. Not Heaven, not Hell, not G-o-d Himself.”

                    1. The TVLine article indicated that, yes. Hell, for all we know, that could be the Men of Letters origins episode, too.

  6. They wrote Eileen, a supposed experienced Hunter so stupidly. Sure she’d fall for that cry for help what with the knowledge that Chuck was out there. I’m sorry but I can’t stand the NepDuo. Even when they manage to actually write something halfway decent you still have to overlook crap like that.

    I still don’t buy the supposed romance that is being shoved down our throats. Can’t they find one actress – one – that Jared shares chemistry with? I know, he married her. As a viewer I can’t help but resent the way they have Dean selling it when few are buying. Speaking of resent – that whole Auntie Rowena counseling the squabbling couple? Gag. More selling. At this point we haven’t even been treated to Deans prayer to Cas. I can’t. I just can’t. I’m truly to the point where I just want them to kill off Cas. As soon as possible. Take Jack too so he doesn’t steal the ending from Sam and Dean.

    As far as Chuck really being the Emptity? Possibly but I’d hate it if they go there. Almost as much as I hate the whole Chuck breaking bad storyline.

    I have zero doubt that I am going to be one of the thirty percent that hate how Dabb plans on wraps up the series. Zero.

    It’s sad that it’s come to this.

    1. Well, as I said before, the main problem with the Chuck-done-broke-bad storyline is the lack of a decent motivation, and severe lack of any twists or reveals that haven’t already been telegraphed. We come back from the Hellatus with episode 12 and up to that point, Chuck’s motivations remain shallow, at best. “He’s a writer who gets bored with his toys” is not sufficient to explain his complete 180 in character type and motivation (I wasn’t too thrilled with how they explained the Eileen thing, either, but that’s something for the next review).

      I don’t actually mind Castiel’s return to his old asshole angel self from earlier seasons, but that, on top of Castiel’s throwing his friendship with Dean under the bus for Jack Sue, has basically destroyed any desire I ever had to see Destiel on screen.

      I have a bad feeling those unhappy with Dabb’s ending will come in at considerably higher than 30%.

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