The Official Supernatural: “Proverbs 17:3” (15.05) Live Recap Thread

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It’s been a tough summer, so I’m way behind on my recaps and reviews. As of this review, I now have 48 episodes left to finish for previous seasons, plus the 15 after this one for the final (15th) season that started on October 10. That’s 64 total by next April. I currently have 151 coffees at $3 each on Ko-Fi (many thanks to those who have contributed so far!). If I get 300 coffees total, I will commit to doing one recap/review per week (retro or Season 15). If I get 400 coffees, I will commit to two. If I get 500 coffees, three reviews. If I get 600 coffees, four reviews. If I get 700 coffees, five reviews per week.

Other that that, any and all contributions are welcome! You can still find my reviews here of North Carolina ghost story books, and notes about my folklore research on Patreon.

My collected recaps and reviews of season one, which first appeared on Innsmouth Free Press, are up (with a few extras) on Kindle. The Kindle version is available through Amazon. The print version is also up. If you buy the print version, you get a Kindle copy thrown in for free. I also get paid if you get it on Kindle Unlimited (for free), read the Kindle version, or lend it to a friend via the Kindle Owners Lending Library. Reviews also help with sales. Just FYI.

Scroll down to find links to all of my recaps and reviews of all seasons up to this point.

Recap: Recap of the season so far, beginning with a quickie two-shot of Sam’s dream about killing Dean that was probably as long as the showrunners originally wanted it to be, ending with Castiel flouncing offstage for a few episodes.

Cut to Now. Three young women, all blonde and all affluent, are sitting inside a large tent. For some bizarre reason, they are dressed like a bunch of aged-out Girl Scouts on safari (one wears a floppy hat that’s shaped like a pith helmet), even though the caption reads that they are in Black Forest, Colorado. They are celebrating 11 years of annual camping trips and that this is their last one, since they are graduating from college and about to go their separate ways. Two of them (the two who keep sniping at each other) have jobs. The third, named Ashley, was only able to manage driving Uber, as some direct result of her getting a Philosophy degree. I shall check my snark on some white dudebro in Hollywood writing condescendingly about educational and financial decisions young women make. Suffice it to say that it’s not a good look for TV writers.

Anyhoo, after sampling some of her friends’ spiced rum, Ashley hears a rustling of bushes in the forest, but she’s the only one alarmed by it. The friend who mocked her degree before goes outside to get more rum. But a moment later, she screams and there’s a rushing noise on the soundtrack. Pith Helmet Girl calls her name (Julie), but there’s no answer. Against Ashley’s wordless protest, PHG goes to the tent flap to zip it closed. But she’s yanked out, with a scream, before she can. Ashley belts out her own scream.

Cue title cards.

Cut to the Bunker, where Sam is walking around with a saltgun and looking in bemusement at the number of unanswered texts he’s sent to Castiel (calling him ‘Cass’). Dean come in from a supply run having made a wonderful discovery – ghost pepper jerky. It only takes a few chews (and some barely suppressed amusement from Sam, who did try to warn him) before Dean realizes his horrible mistake. In the meantime (while Dean’s eyes are watering, and he’s gagging and sucking down water), Sam confirms that the three victims for their new hunt (with the Doomed Teaser Gals) has gone up to five. So, there are new victims out in them thar Colorado woods.

After Dean dashes off to the bathroom to throw up, we cut to a view of the Bunker corridors and then to Sam in a white suit (i.e., Samifer) sitting at the table in the Library. Dean, wearing his season five blue jacket, comes up behind him with the Colt. Saying “Please forgive me” (to which Samifer smiles coldly), Dean cocks the gun and shoots his brother in the back of the head. But Samifer quickly heals ( Dean should have known from season five, already) and lifts his head. Saying “Did you really think that would work? Poor, faithful Dean, we both knew it had to end this way,” he makes Dean spontaneously combust, while basking in the flames.

This turns out to be another nightmare, from which Sam wakes up in the Impala. Dean is driving (they’re on their way to Colorado). Dean asks him to tell him about it, but Sam demurs. Yes, Sam is still lying to Dean about his dreams.

They arrive in daylight and it turns out Dean has a different idea than their usual FBI suits – Fish and Wildlife, with some very old IDs for Ford and Hamill. The sheriff thinks Dean looks old for his ID (which is eye-rolling, since Jared Padalecki has changed much more significantly as he’s aged than Jensen Ackles, albeit Ackles’ voice has “aged” much more). She’s played by the same actress who played Tara the Hunter in season nine’s “First Born,” so I guess that’s final confirmation of Tara’s death. That sucks. I liked Tara. Always kinda hoped she’d somehow managed to survive. And I just retro-reviewed that episode, so it’s still fresh.

The sheriff tells them she thinks it’s a person, not an animal, who’s actually done the attacks because it ate the hearts of the two dead girls (we never find out anything about the other two dead people who were supposedly part of the body count). There’s only one survivor so far – Ashley from the teaser.

Her full name is Ashley Munroe and she’s still in the hospital, with a huge scratch down one side of her face, when the Brothers interview her. Sam asks her if she remembers anything. She has a flashback to running through the woods, being chased by a guy in red flannel, but is too afraid to speak in front of the male nurse. Sam has the nurse talk to him outside, while Dean interviews her alone.

Dean reassures her that “whatever you saw, we’ll believe you.” After a rather short amount of time, she admits that she was attacked by a man, but that this man was a “monster” with big teeth and claws (another flashback) that gave her the scratch and warned her to keep quiet. She begs him for protection. Dean confirms this monster as a werewolf and tells her that monsters are real. Holding her hand, he gives her The Talk and reassures her that everything will be all right. I am more confused by why he’s not checking her for bites with silver.

Dean and Sam consult in the hallway, where Dean fills Sam in. He also has a name – Andy May. Sam points out that it wasn’t a full moon (oh, Show, you decided to remember that bit of lore after ignoring it for so long?). Dean says Andy could be a Pureblood (and ergo, could turn at any time). Sam goes to get the address. Dean turns and looks through the window into Ashley’s room, where she looks terrified and cries to herself.

The Brothers roll up to a rustic cabin in the woods, in broad daylight, still dressed like Duck Dynasty rejects. Sam says Andy lives there with his brother Josh. Oh, look, everybody – blatant MOTW parallels to our lead characters.

So, the guy in the button-down shirt who answers claims he’s not Andy, but that the guy in the pullover white sweater is. Not-Andy is taller and hostile, and keeps throwing the Winchesters shade (including making a snarky age joke about Dean’s ID). This must be Josh. Andy is overly solicitous and helpful, in stark contrast to his brother. Both of them react to Ashley’s photo on Sam’s phone (nice way of outing her to the monsters, Sam), which Dean watches closely. Sam tries to get them to write down their phone number on his notepad, using a silver pen, and Josh recoils. Not very subtle, these two.

After Josh abruptly ends the conversation and practically shuts the door in their faces, Dean suggests to Sam that they shoot both werewolves right then and there. It’s a thought, at that. Would be a shorter episode, anyway.

As the Winchesters go to the Impala and drive away, Josh nervously watches them go. He berates Andy for babbling (and letting Ashley go), but Andy points out they wouldn’t be in this predicament if Josh hadn’t killed the other two girls. Apparently, Josh has been spiraling since their dad (also a werewolf, it seems) died. Josh manages to turn this around on Andy by saying they have to kill Ashley, now.

Just a note – Josh is significantly taller than his brother. Also the older one. Apparently.

That night at the Sleepy Bear Inn, the Winchesters are letting Ashley (who has checked out of the hospital) into their room. Dean offers to let her sleep there for the night, while they take another room next door. Dean’s plan is to go back to the cabin and off the two werewolf brothers before they can get up to any more heart-eating shenanigans. Sam frets that the hunt has been too “easy” so far, which Dean shrugs off.

Ashley throws a spanner in the works, though, when she asks Dean to watch over her until she falls asleep. Dean looks surprised, even chagrined, by the request, but agrees.

Speaking of “easy,” the werewolf brothers are staking out the motel in their rusty pickup. Despite Andy’s pointing out that the Winchesters are there, too, Josh figures it’ll be a breeze to go in and kidnap Ashley.

In the motel room, Dean is having trouble staying awake. He comes out of the bathroom after splashing water on his face. Ashley is in bed, still fully dressed, sitting up. She just took some of the pills the hospital gave her, which Dean adjudges “the good stuff” (he would know).

Ashley asks him if he likes his job. Dean admits that he still does. Yes, there’s “a lot of bad,” but he still does some good. She asks him if ever wanted to be anything else. “Jimi Hendrix,” he jokes.

Ashley talks a bit about her life – graduating from college, the bit about how she and her friends went camping together since they were kids, how she doesn’t have a job or anything. Dean tries to reassure her – “You got time.”

Ashley then says something really strange (and yes, Dean does notice this). She says, “Wouldn’t it be great if everything was just planned out for you? If it was all just already decided?”

“No,” Dean replies as Ashley goes to sleep. “Not really.”

The camera swings portentously down to the alarm clock on the bedstand between their beds (which reads a quarter to twelve). Then, after changing to 1:20 am, it swings back to Dean on his bed, deeply asleep. Sam wakes him up (Dean comes awake, ready to fight) and it turns out Ashley is missing. When Sam came back from getting some food, he found her gone and the door wide open. Without trying to explain, Dean grabs his jacket and runs out the door. Sam follows.

At their house, the werewolf brothers have her in their cellar or shed or kitchen, or something, tied up and gagged, facing a large collection of badly maintained carpentry tools and some blood-streaked metal walls. Why they didn’t kill her at the motel (or, for that matter, Dean) is not explained in the fight they’re having over whether to kill her now. Josh is all hot to kill her – not just to eliminate a witness, but because being a werewolf is awesome. Josh is so high on the smell of his own werewolf farts that he completely spaces the part where his brother is the one talking sense.

Outside, the Winchesters are arriving unnoticed as Dean is insisting the werewolves couldn’t have possibly taken Ashley while he was asleep. Which, considering he is still breathing and in possession of his heart, is a decent point. The werewolf brothers don’t hear them arrive, which I’m willing to attribute to soundproofing going both ways in their abbatoir – until Ashley screams and the Winchesters kick down the door in response.

Andy and Josh hear that and flee the abbatoir, right before the Winchesters enter. Dean puts his gun away long enough to cut Ashley loose. He gets her up and heading out the door as Sam covers them. Alas, Sam’s coverage doesn’t help much. As they are exiting through the living room, the werewolf brothers come down from the ceiling and ambush them. Sam immediately loses his gun.

As Ashley cowers in a corner, Josh goes after Dean and Andy goes after Sam. Both Sam and Dean do pretty badly (unrealistically so) in the fight and even Dean using a dried-up set of deer antlers off the wall against Josh doesn’t go as planned. I recall showrunner Andrew Dabb saying in a recent interview that the Winchesters would have a harder time on hunts thanks to Chuck. Well, that idea sounds nice on paper, but sucks in the execution. All it adds up to here is a boring fight where the Brothers Winchester are losing to two low-rent werewolves for no damned good reason. It’s not even LOL!canon. It’s just lame.

Anyhoo, Andy ends up with Dean’s gun, starts to aim it at Sam, looks agonized, then shoots his brother just as Josh is about to bite Dean. While Sam tries to talk him down, he rants a bit about how Josh was his brother, but was “never going to stop,” that Josh “was a monster and I’m a monster, too.” Then he shoots himself. Bye, Captain Obvious.

The Brothers are seriously confused. Dean even comments, “Well, that was weird.”

As Ashley comes out of the corner, looking freaked out, Dean tries to take her elbow to guide her gently out of the room. Instead, out of nowhere, Ashley shrieks, “DON’T TOUCH ME!” swings around, trips, and lands on the dried-out old antlers, which are suddenly like tensile steel and razor sharp, and pierce her torso in several places. They also appear to kill her instantly.

Sam and Dean are even more confused (not horrified by her sudden death, just confused). After a few seconds, she suddenly revives and says, “Well, this is a bitch.” She sits up, still ‘wearing’ the antlers, and whines, “And I was doing so well, too!” Then she stands up and TK’s the rack out of her back.

Sam says, “What are you?” ‘Ashley’ responds by rolling her eyes up white and we’re treated to a flashback of Sam killing Lilith at the end of season four in “Lucifer Rising.” Dean then says her name.

It turns out that Lilith was dead and in the Empty when Chuck came and revived her. Her mission? To set up the parallel of the two brother werewolves killing each other, seduce Dean, and get the all-killing gun from them that Chuck gave Dean to kill Jack and with which Sam shot Chuck. Oh, and she’s not allowed to kill them.

Dean tells her that if Chuck wants the “Equalizer” back (Lilith insists she won’t call it that; I’m totally calling it that now, just for spite), he can come get it himself.

Sam pulls out the Sparkly Spork and Dean an angel blade, but they give her too much time to prepare. She TKs them back, knocking Sam out. Dean appears to panic over Lilith threatening Sam, so to distract her, he says he’ll take her to the Equalizer if she spares Sam.

We get a reiteration that she can’t kill either of them (Chuck has her on a tight leash), but she can make Dean wish he were dead, if he crosses her. Even so, she keeps batting her eyes at him and making come-ons that aren’t particularly reciprocated. In fact, her boast about seducing Dean is rather sad, considering Dean’s facial expressions in her direction while he thought she was alive and still Ashley ranged from pity to annoyance and back again. We know what Dean’s like when he’s attracted to a woman and that ain’t it. And despite his little shrug when she asks him about the possibility after her reveal, there’s no way he’s going to sleep with a demon when he, himself, is not a demon.

Left behind, Sam has a dream in which he is beaten in the Bunker by Demon!Dean (how I missed you, sir!) and then stabbed to death with the First Blade. Sadly, it doesn’t last long – the dream, I mean.

Sam wakes up abruptly, alone in the cabin. He finds the werewolves’ rusty old pickup, and chases after Dean and Lilith.

In the Impala on the way to the motel, Dean actively pumps Lilith for info. She spills even more than he wants to hear. It turns out that she picked poor Ashley because (said in a robotic voice as if quoting Chuck) “of the three potential vessels, she had the nicest hair” (they’re hosts, not vessels, you numpty writers). She died to let Lucifer out of the Cage, which was apparently her greatest wish, for reasons she never makes clear (I never really got what was in all that for her). Now she’s stuck working for Chuck (the “everything planned out for you” line was Chuck’s). She can’t hurt him, but she can hurt Dean.

She also mentions that Chuck has “a pervy, pervy obsession” with Dean. And that Chuck’s favorite story ending is Sam and Dean killing each other. She even lampshades that the two werewolf brothers were “foreshadowing” because it seems the writers think the audience is too stupid to have figured it out for ourselves.

Back at the motel room, Dean balks and says he forgot that the Equalizer isn’t there. I don’t quite understand why Lilith jumped through so many hoops to get back to the place she was just a few hours ago, foreshadowing or no foreshadowing with werewolves, when her main mission was to get the Equalizer. Why not just put Dean to sleep and then ransack the room?

Anyhoo, she starts TK-slashing him in various places to torture him into complying. It doesn’t work, but it gives Sam enough time to come in with a gun and shoot her in the head with a devil’s trap bullet. She is temporarily stuck and the Winchesters flee as soon as she demonstrates that she’s not completely powerless. Sam says he can just kill her again. Lilith begs to differ, saying she “let” Sam kill her before. Oh, honey. You are so dumb, Lilith.

Anyhoo, Dean quickly realizes that they need to get out because she is powerful enough to rid herself of the bullet. Unfortunately, they only get halfway across the parking lot before she does. She freezes them in place and teleports in front of them.

So, after some painfully obvious deduction that the Equalizer isn’t in the motel room, and making a rather large leap of logic that they wouldn’t leave it in the Bunker, she decides it’s in the Impala. And it is. It’s in the glove compartment box.

She melts it right in front of them, to their despair, and then leaves after some gloating that she will “see you soon.” But she doesn’t take the metal, which is, you know, probably still magical.

Back at the Bunker, Sam calls Castiel and tries to warn him about Chuck being back, but it goes to voicemail. Dean comes in with beers and they discuss this latest startling development.

Dean has been holding up well so far this season, but he’s now having a hard time processing that Chuck is back. He tells Sam what Lilith said about one of them killing the other (but not that Chuck is obsessed with Dean). Sam then admits that he’s having dreams about Chuck’s endings and Dean is a tad irritated Sam never mentioned that before. Sam claims he thought it was just PTSD. He thinks the effect has to do with the bullet wound. Maybe Sam is “in [Chuck’s] head.” Sam is all about the plans to use this to their advantage.

Dean, however, is in despair: “How the hell are we supposed to fight God?”


The show got another 0.3/2 and went back up to 1.30 million in audience.

The preview and synopsis for the next episode (“Golden Time”) is up, as is the one for this week, which is Deancentric and guest-stars Christian Kane. It appears the show will go on Christmas hiatus until January 16 after the December 12 episode (15.08 – “Our Father Who Aren’t in Heaven”), though there’s a rumor one might air on December 19. Even with only 20 episodes in the season, this means over half the season will air in the spring. I sure hope the pace picks up before Christmas hiatus, but with the Nepotism Duo writing the December 12th ep, we’ll be lucky if that one wants us to keep watching at all.

Review: Oh, hi, Dean. Nice to see you in the mytharc again.

It’s frustrating that the newest and (quite frankly) most intriguing part of the storyline by far this week is the part that isn’t lampshaded repeatedly with flashbacks, and on-the-nose dialogue and situations. For example, the episode’s writer, Steve Yockey, flat-out quoted the passage cited in the episode’s title, as if fans were incapable of looking it up for ourselves: “The crucible [is] for silver and the furnace [is] for gold, but the Lord tests the heart.” He’s also stated that this is his last episode for the show. Though I enjoyed some of his previous entries, most of this one was a half-cooked slog, so I’m not overly sorry to see him go.

So, we’ll see what actually happens with that one (very significant) bit, which is Lilith’s throwaway line about Chuck’s “pervy, pervy obsession with” Dean. She decidedly does not mean Sam. She has basically no time for Sam these days. In fact, it’s fairly dizzying whether she’s trying to seduce Dean because she’s actually really into Dean now or because Chuck told her to.

This opens an intriguing possibility (which Dean doesn’t see, at least not this week) that Dean might be able to manipulate Chuck. It sure seems more likely to succeed than Sam’s hair-brained idea that Chuck has no idea Sam is in his head, or that Sam could influence Chuck, or even get intel on him. Sam was dead wrong, for example, that Chuck had left the SPNverse building and I see no reason why he’d be right now. Sam’s track record with manipulating powerful beings is downright pitiful, even if the show did decide to leave out the bits of his killing Lilith in season four that included Ruby manipulating him into it.

I also thought it was interesting that while Lilith told Dean Chuck’s favorite ending was one brother killing the other, the emphasis in Sam’s dreams from Chuck was heavily on Sam killing Dean. Even the Demon!Dean sequence had a flavor of warning, of “You’d better kill Dean before he kills you.” It was also the only dream in which the killer brother had a legitimate beef with the other. What Sam did to Dean to “cure” him was nasty and remained largely unaddressed afterward.

But Dean has some high-level notches on his seduction belt and the way he messed with Lilith (in ways she didn’t always notice) this week indicates he hasn’t lost his touch. Chuck’s own sister Amara found Dean immensely more intriguing than her own brother in season 11 (I guess that’s why the show had to write her out in the second episode of this season, huh?). And, of course, there’s the forgotten actual, onscreen toxic romance between Dean and Crowley, in which Dean, like a classic film noir femme fatale, had Crowley twisted right around his finger for years. And everyone noticed, including Crowley, but Crowley couldn’t (or wouldn’t) do a thing about it. So, the idea that Dean could use Chuck’s obsession with him, against Chuck, is not at all far-fetched.

Though I was rolling my eyes pretty hard at the way the episode wanted us to believe that Dean was toxic for poor Ashley. There were some serious plotholes for that character (not least the timeline of when Lilith actually possessed her and how Lilith manipulated the werewolf brothers). But the big one was – since when is Dean the brother who is deadly for his female partners? Seems to me Sam’s the one with the track record in girlfriends who end up roadkill. Dean’s partners have an excellent survival rate and leave pretty satisfied. Not that Dean seemed very interested in sleeping with Ashley.

Woof. Speaking of, I’d forgotten what a prattling, overenunciating moron Lilith was. Sure, she’s an overpowered moron, but the show has gotten to the point where that kind of character no longer impresses. We (and the Brothers) have already encountered far too many other characters who make Lilith look like an insect.

And that’s a lot of the problem. She worked well in context – as the powerful herald to the Devil Himself. But she’s way outta context now. Lucifer himself has been diminished and killed off (though sure, he could still come back from the Empty, though I hope not). And now that she’s working for Chuck, she’s actually less threatening than before because she can’t actually kill Sam and Dean.

It doesn’t help that even now, we still don’t know whatever truly motivated her. Freeing Lucifer was a goal, not a motivation. What did she see in it for her, getting herself killed for the cause? Well, we never found out in “Lucifer Rising” and we didn’t find out this week, either.

She started out on the show as the Devil’s Bitch. Now she’s become his daddy’s bitch. But throughout, she has remained Some More-Powerful Male Character’s Bitch. Unlike Abaddon, who cheerfully caught up to speed after being in a timewarp for half a century and immediately decided to go for being Queen of Hell (because Abaddon began and ended awesomely evil), Lilith is now permanently out of touch and permanently stuck being some dudebro’s disposable right-hand henchwoman. That’s not scary. That’s just sad.

Also, would it kill the writers to remember their own damned canon that people possessed by demons are “hosts” not “vessels,” as Lilith calls the poor kid she’s possessing this week? The actress was actually decent, keeping a clear demarcation between Lilith and poor Ashley, but there wasn’t a whole lot of “there” there for her to work with. The show even seems to want us to forget about that whole “babies on the menu” thing from season four.

So, we see Lilith berating the Brothers for being dumb (because they didn’t – and couldn’t have – anticipate a dead enemy returning from a place dead enemies don’t return from), while doing Very Dumb Things. Yeah, she melts the Equalizer (I’m gonna use that just out of spite because the writers had her hating it), but then she leaves the puddle of metal behind. I mean, it’s not as though the Equalizer was much use to them, anyway, but they might also be able to do something with that puddle of metal (because hello, what is one of Dean’s skills? Metallurgy).

And I was rolling my eyes pretty hard when she was monologuing about all the terrible things she was going to do to them to get the Equalizer, all of two seconds after she admitted that Chuck wouldn’t let her do anything permanent to them, anyway. Plus, by admitting that Chuck brought her back and needed the gun, she ended up giving the Brothers all kinds of intel (including that Chuck was weaker than they previous thought), while getting from them a semi-useless powerful gun that she melted down and then still left in their possession.

Like I said, not very bright. I mean, obviously, she doesn’t really care about the mission in the first place, but she “cared” (i.e., was intimidated by Chuck) enough to agree to do it in the first place to stay out of the Empty. So, maybe do better at it?

One good thing to come out of this was confirmation that it wasn’t just coincidence last season, Chuck honing in on Dean like that. Lilith refers to Chuck’s “pervy, pervy obsession” with Dean. But it sure was a long, boring MOTW slog to get to that one critical scene, the only one that advanced the plot in any significant way. You need to up the pace a bit, Show, both within episodes and with your mytharc.

The Kripke Years

Season 1

Season 2

Season 3

Season 4

Season 5

The Gamble Years

Season 6 (with Kripke)

Season 7

The Carver Years

Season 8

Season 9

Season 10

Season 11

The Dabb Years

Season 12

Season 13

Season 14

Season 15

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39 thoughts on “The Official Supernatural: “Proverbs 17:3” (15.05) Live Recap Thread”

  1. You know, despite my reservations about what they are doing with Eileen, there were things about the last episode that I liked. I just watched it again, and I kind of enjoyed watching Rowena messing with her demon’s heads, and her recounting her regrets, including her very real regrets towards her Fergus.

    I also really liked seeing Adam’s hard won maturity, and his odd (yet oddly plausible) friendship with Michael. It wasn’t what I expected. Of course, Adam himself is partly to blame for why he ended up in Hell, as he tried to betray his brothers in season 5, but I have a feeling that had occurred to him during his years in Hell. It was good to see he and Michael were not all hot for revenge.

    1. I loved Rowena. It was daft and I think it worked mostly due to Ruth Connell, but I did love her as a friendly Queen of Hell.

      I did like that Adam admits to Michael at one point that his brothers warned him not to say yes and he ignored them.

  2. I watched the most recent three episodes today. Interesting that they are showing them being tempted- Sam with power (via witchcraft) and Dean with nihilism. And yet only Sam succumbed to the temptation. Now that he used witchcraft to bring Eileen back, I suspect this will be a gateway thing for him. Of course, he’ll do it with the best of intentions.

    But I noticed that he didn’t ask Eileen if that’s even what she wanted. She seemed fine with Dean’s solution, and while she’s probably glad to be alive again, she may have some ambivalence. The returned dead seem to be. But I do hope the writers find more for Eileen to do.

    1. I don’t like what they’re doing with Eileen so far. I like Eileen. I like Shoshanna Stern. I don’t have any problem with Eileen and Sam knocking boots. But I do not like how they are reducing her to a fluffy Love Interest with a cute disability. And yeah, Sam is a bit…condescending toward her.

  3. Hoo boy. Can’t wait to see what you thought of this one.

    Me? First thought was what in the Hell did I just watch. Second thought was still not buying the Sam and Eileen love story. One, zero chemistry between Jared and Shoshannah and B, man does it feel shoehorned in. Supernatural is not and never has been about the romance. I pray Dabb doesn’t end it by splitting up the brothers this way.

    Chuck: (paraphrasing) “Back off or else… Jody. (Dean, Cas and Sam all looked concerned). Donna…(Dean, Cas and Sam all seem worried). And lest we forget Sam. Eileen!” (Sam looking surprised but far from panicked, threatened or pissed. And this is supposed to be the big love interest? Yeah. No.)

    Why would TFW have thought for one minute that Michael/Adam were in the cage? They knew it was busted open along with everything else. Belphegor even suggested that he was out. ‘Wouldn’t hold a grudge or anything…’. Plus the cage is in the deepest, darkest realm of Hell. Did they think they would just saunter up to it? If 3 demons kicked their collective gorgeous asses then how did they figure on overcoming them to even get to it, much less persuade them to help? This was plot stupid just to get to you know who. Plus, the whining about missing Earth? Not like she can’t just hop aboard a meat suit.

    I think the Nep Duo have found their niche. It’s not hard to write when theres zero canon holding you back.

    Donatello is annoying.

    1. I really disliked Chuck for the way he took over the casino and killed everybody and was just dismissive to his drink waitress. It was almost LUCIFER-LIKE in its petulance.

      I hope to the REAL God that this is not the REAL Chuck. (I know Amara reacted like it was Chuck so it probably IS really Chuck, but I hate this Chuck.)

      I get that Sam has gentle feelings for Eileen. He was definitely acting more ‘boyfriend’ when he stalked her on her nearby hunt.

      BUT Eileen has been dead for THREE damn years, how could Hunter-Lady-We-Never-Saw-Before know she was alive, let alone know her email address and/or phone number? Did Eileen post on Hunter Hotline General Info that ‘hey guys, I’m back from the dead and I am ready to hunt again.’ I wish they had had her say something like that.

      I thought she came over from Ireland to hunt the Banshee who killed her parents and I definitely remember her saying she liked to hunt alone.

      IS there a HUNTER CENTRAL HOTLINE that I did not know about?

    2. LOL! I really wish the writing were better for Eileen. I fear that rather than upping their game, the writers will come up with the same brilliant solution they did for Lisa and Ben, and just fridge her.

      1. I just thought of something about Lilith: WHAT THE HELL WAS SHE THINKING DISSING MICHAEL LIKE THAT?

        She was a walking blond joke.

        I watched again and I just wait WTF? I liked ‘our’ Michael the way he just calming turned her to ash and then said to the diner, Forget This. “Some” angels, who shall remain nameless because there are too many of them, might’ve just smote the whole restaurant!

        So we know OUR Michael is better than AU!Michael already.

        Somebody said something about AU!Michael was ‘ok’ at the beginning of the AU!Apocalypse and then when he realized that God was not coming he turned crazy mean. Maybe he was trying to get God’s attention? Maybe he figured God would show up if he began massacring humans?

        I totally believed him in Nihilism though, that he’d seen thru the curtain and KNEW that his Father was not the ‘entity’ he thought he was and that his Father never really cared at all.

        I can see our Michael returning to Heaven because it is the right thing to do, having nothing to do with God at all, just letting it go, saying Forget About It.

        Do you think Chuck wanted Michael to take Lilith out, because Chuck knew ‘her’ and he knew ‘Michael’ and how Michael would react to Lilith just being herself?

  4. How did the episode want us to see Dean as toxic for Ashley? I completely didn’t take that away from the episode at all. If anything, I thought it showcased some of his better qualities, like his kindness to those he perceives as innocent. There was certainly never any sexual vibe.

    Regarding Chuck: Chuck must be afraid of Dean getting the upper hand. It’s clear from the whole Equalizer plot that Chuck could only hope to kill Dean, by getting Dean to kill himself. Considering Dean’s hall of infinite deaths, you’ve got to wonder why he even tried – presuming Chuck even wrote that part of the story – though I guess it’s collapsed into a single book now, which also seems to have been be overwritten. But it could explain why Chuck wrote in Dean’s past suicidal tendencies. A sort of fail safe for an experiment in overpowering his favorite character, with whom he is now obsessed. This is starting to feel like a cross between Frankenstein and Pygmalion. In any case, I’m really starting to think Chuck, and by extension Amara, are not the most powerful beings in the SPNverse.

    1. Well, for one thing, Ashley ends up dead and she does so after Dean tries to touch her. Yes, it’s to help her, but she screams at him not to touch her, then trips and falls and ends up dead. Second, Lilith keeps implying that Dean is a heartless seducer of young women, not just in her plan to play the Damsel in Distress and get him into bed, but with lines like “You would promise a girl the moon, wouldn’t you?”

      There is definitely something going on where Chuck is afraid of Dean, or what Dean might do, or what Dean might find out. Chuck doesn’t seem to be afraid of Sam at all and Sam’s the one with a piece of his soul binding Chuck to Earth. Chuck is acting like Azazel did around Dean and we eventually found out that was because Azazel knew, even before Dean’s birth, that Dean would eventually kill him.

      1. I ‘never’ got that Dean was maneuvering Ashley into a hook-up. To me he was just ‘perfect’ with her if she had been ASHLEY and not LILITH.
        “Whatever you tell us we’ll believe you.”
        “Of course I’ll stay.”

        Never got ‘the vibe’ from him; haven’t seen him doing anything but looking at young women.

        I know, he was perfect ‘also’ with Delilah in “Halt and Catch Fire” and this episode reminded me of that, he ‘looked’ at al the sorority sisters but so what? He was all business and UNDERSTANDING with Delilah and nearly got beat to death by Ghost!Andrew.

        Now “Ashley” was also playing it cool, she was not coming on to Dean (but he did seemed shocked when she asked him to stay with her while she slept — now ‘he’ was the one who talked to her but I think HE thought she would’ve been more at ease with Sam) and I feel sure sometime in the night he would’ve been asked to ‘comfort’ her while she cried for her friends.

        I can’t wait for Amara to kick Chuck’s ass.

        I am waiting for the episode which gives the story of WHY Chuck and Amara aren’t together.

        1. Oh, I don’t think Dean was being predatory at all in this episode. If anything, he was a bit indifferent.

          I just think that the show’s writers often use characters in the show to comment negatively on Dean, using the hostile nature of those characters to mask their own authorial condescension.

          Like Ruby’s incessant and vicious insults about Dean’s intelligence in season three. Yeah, she ultimately wasn’t trustworthy, but the writers (Kripke, especially, since she was his pet) were working out more than a little hostility toward Dean, to the point that many fans were actually surprised when Ruby turned out to be evil.

          Looking at her objectively, Ruby obviously *was* evil because she did many bad things and never did anything that was actually not serving her own agenda. But the writers intentionally spun things more sympathetically toward her POV than Dean’s, so a lot of people (some of whom were already inclined not to like Dean) were completely fooled. Just like Sam.

      2. I see your point regarding Ashley, and maybe the writers intended to code that into their writing, but that’s still not what I took from it. After all, this is a single incident. It’s not like Dean’s never been dangerous to be around, for men and women both, but not in that way. As for Lillith’s prattle – we’re back to “Demon’s Lie.”

        At this point, Chuck may be welcoming the connection with Sam, as a way to manipulate Dean into killing himself. It’s no wonder he’s not bothered by it.

        BTW, I enjoyed the Thanksgiving story.

        1. Yes, demons lie, but it seemed fairly clear the writers themselves were making a statement about Dean’s relationships with women and that it wasn’t intended to be positive.

          Ironically, those same writers don’t notice how bringing back a kickass character like Eileen and then reducing her to a love interest, mopping Sam’s sweaty brow, is far more sexist than any nonsense Lilith was spouting about Dean’s silver tongue. We should also probably take into consideration the way Dabb wrote Lilith in the comics. She’s a lot more like that in this episode, than the way she was initially in season three.

          Oh, good. Thought you guys would enjoy that one!

      3. In Don’t Call Me Shurley! Chuck said he had lots of boyfriends and girlfriends and ‘also’ that he did not ‘learn’ to play guitar, just willed himself able to play. My point is did his ‘boyfriends and girlsfriends’ like ‘Chuck’ or did Chuck make them like him until he got bored. I think Chuck gets bored a lot. I also think part of this existential crisis seems to be the return of his sister; I don’t think he ‘likes’ having an equally powerful being around…who does not appear to like being around HIM very much.

        I wonder if Chuck had to ‘will’ people to like him ‘like that’ or if he was acting as much of himself as he could with people and they liked him? It seemed to me that Becky dumped HIM (and is that part of the reason he deleted her?) but maybe somebody else knows.

        1. Becky didn’t dump him. She says in the wedding ep that he dumped her.

          I continue not to buy that this is the real Chuck. Rob Benedict is playing him much more like the Empty Entity pretending to be Chuck.

          1. Oh I remember him saying that he had ‘too much respect’ for Becky or something stupid like that when he told Sam and Dean ‘what happened with Becky’ and I think HE acted like he was the dumpee.

            You know, they might’ve each dumped the other and not known it. Chuck because Becky was in the end boring to him and Becky because Chuck did not want to have sex with her (at least that is what I thought was going on).

            I just thought of something HORRIBLE TO ME. Maybe Lucifer was Chuck’s favorite because he was the most like Chuck? Just a petulant little jerk.

            1. I think Chuck dumped Becky, but didn’t want to admit it. Becky seemed pretty certain he’d dumped her and even as late as her last experience, realized he only kept her around as a novelty. Obviously, she’s not a virgin, anymore, since she had two kids.

          2. If you’re right, why is the real Chuck allowing the phony to run amok? Is he actually in a weakened state?

            Are you implying that the writers will use the fake Chuck stratagem as a way of wriggling out of the accusation that they are portraying God as a bad guy?

                1. That’s the mystery. I don’t think we’ve seen the real Chuck since the end of s11. Whether we’re getting a straight-up God-broke-bad storyline or one where Chuck has been replaced and imprisoned in the Empty, I don’t believe we have most of the reasoning behind why he’s acting the way he is now (unless he’s the Empty Entity, in which case, his motivation isn’t that hard to suss out), nor the moment when he switched.

                  It annoys me that we are already 40% into the season (no, Twitter, that was not a real midseason finale. It never is) and have yet to address this at all. This has made the pacing flabby and the exposition repetitive. But at some point, we do need to find out why Chuck (or “Chuck”) is doing what he is doing and why he is doing it now.

                  1. Maybe when Dean prays to Cas we’ll get some kind of parallel foreshadowing.

                    Maybe the episode where Chuck showed up when we saw the Mirror Company that wasn’t the real Chuck then?

                    I’m just spit balling who knows what half baked idea Dabb has created this time. You know – other than “Canon? What canon?”

                    Im almost expecting him to go full throttle and finally make the Destielers dreams come true. I mean, if you’re going to ruin Supernatural why not go all the way?!

                    As far as the Emptity goes – I don’t get why it would want to go to such an extent? Cas woke him up. He expelled Cas. Go back to sleep already. Unless the poor thing has now got the worst case of insomnia and is seeking revenge then why would it want to pretend to be God? Why would it have that kind of power? It’s job is to tend to the sleeping all the while sleeping itself. That doesn’t even make sense.

                    1. The EE did expel Castiel–but after Jack died for a hot minute early last season and went to Heaven (because he still had a soul), the EE invaded Heaven to snatch him off to the Empty. That was when Castiel made his deal to save Jack (which he still has not shared with Sam and Dean) about how the EE would come back to snatch him once he experienced real happiness. Which I have a sneaking suspicion is the real reason we’re getting all the Destiel pandering, of a sudden.

                    2. So do you think Dean will confess his true love to Cas thus hastening his one way trip to the Empty? (Please no). Or seeing as Cas has been going through this low self esteem/I’m not worthy funk, will it be more of a explanation of their relationship that acknowledges he’s truly important and valued by the Winchesters and the universe? Either way he’s happy – his bill comes due.

                      What do you think the prayer will be? Has Dean ever thanked Cas for pulling him out of Hell? Or said how much their friendship has meant to him? Or means to him now? Not including Sam, just himself. If so I hope it’s not just a whitewash of the stupid things Cas has done. Or maybe he won’t bring that back up considering how he already made his point during the library conversation.

                      We were sold that there would be more than we got in the scene where Dean was in the woods crying over Mary. I suspect this will be more of the same.

                    3. I hope not. I have no desire to see a straight teen girl’s porn fantasy of Destiel. I do think Castiel needs to get his head out of his ass and soon. Dean would probably have forgiven him sooner if Castiel weren’t constantly lashing out at him, and projecting his own anger and guilt over Jack (a storyline I already hated) onto Dean.

                      I do hope we get to see Benny, but if Olsson’s schedule was already full when they were filming earlier in the season, it probably won’t happen.

  5. I reread this recap/review and I wanted to take on some of your points: Ashley was supposed to be 21-22 and I ‘think’ Dean is interested in WOMEN (like the waitress at Lee’s bar this week, I could ‘totally’ see Dean and her doing the wild thing) so that was a miss. If Chuck thought Dean would bang a gong with Ashley he had another think coming.

    Also I don’t remember anybody ever calling demon-possessed humans ‘hosts’: I thought the description used was MEAT SUIT.

    Lilith, like Azazel, was a true believer in Lucifer. What she got out of it was DOING WHAT SHE DID. She ‘wanted’ to be the instrument of Lucifer’s Rising. At the beginning of Lucifer Rising, when Azazel, in the priest, reaches Lucifer after killing all the nuns, HE calls him Father. You have stated in the past that Azazel, when he was in Samuel Campbell, learned that Dean would one day kill him he STILL went thru with his whole plot, knowing that Dean was integral in some way to Lucifer Rising (no Dean, no Sam raised from the dead, no Sam raised from the dead AND no Dean, NO APOCALYPSE — Azazel appeared to know that Dean was slated to be Michael’s vessel just like Sam was slated to be Lucifer), so Azazel gave his life in the furtherance of the plot to raise Lucifer and so did Lilith. As I said, they were true believers (like Simmons in The Vessel, jumping in front of Crowley’s Hand of God weapon to protect Lucifer — she DIED for him knowingly).

    And to your plea, PLEASE GOD DO NOT BRING BACK LUCIFER. I can’t bear another Lucifer. Season 11 is playing on TNT and I can’t even stand Mischa Collins’ rendition of Lucifer — he did a good job but I am so F-ING sick of the character. I am up for Jake Abel bringing back Michael, but I would really like DEAN to be Michael again.

    And ‘will’ we ever see Amara? Did anybody explain why Chuck and Amara weren’t together? Did having his equally-powerful sister around destroy Chuck’s mojo for writing? All his plots now seem SO STUPID.

    On a side note, IF Chuck is somehow less-powered because of Sam, why doesn’t he just KILL Sam?

    You are right, there are lots of plot holes, acres of plot holes. AND I am waiting for you to write a review of this week’s show, because ONCE AGAIN Castiel did something so stupid it was the stupidest thing EVER DONE. IF when Dean came back he found out CASTIEL ‘accidentally’ killed Sam, I wonder if Dean would’ve angel-bladed him on the spot.

    1. Well, obviously, Dean is not into women half his age, or even several years younger than he is. I think he’s always talked about cheerleaders being “legal” and such (aside from Dabb and some other writers being creepily into that) to get a rise out of Sam. As early as “Asylum,” we saw that Dean wasn’t interested in hooking up with underage teenage girls because, to him, they were kids.

      People possessed by demons have always been called “hosts.” “Meat suits” was always the insulting slang term for people possessed both by demons and by angels.

      True believers don’t deliberately choose oblivion for the cause, not in a religious story. They expect to go to Heaven. In fact, Meg lampshaded that this was the prize Lucifer offered them in “Abandon All Hope” in season 5. We also had Lilith getting second thoughts (or claiming to) late in season four once she found out she was the Last Seal, then coming back even more fanatical. Simmons didn’t really have time to think about the consequences of her actions (especially if she thought she was going to Heaven, or Lucifer had convinced her the Empty was a cool place to go), but Lilith did.

      As for Azazel, he didn’t just lie down and accept his fate. He tried to subvert it by murdering Dean with the Colt, even knowing Dean was Michael’s chosen vessel (and probably that Dean was under Michael’s protection). Interesting choice of a murder weapon for a mere human, but there you go.

      Dabb had claimed that Amara will be back and her relationship with Dean explored further. We’ll see if that happens.

      The impression I get is that Chuck can’t kill Sam – that if he tried at this point, it would kill them both. I’m a lot more curious about why Chuck doesn’t just kill Dean.

      1. Chuck wants to ‘know’ Dean (and maybe in the Biblical sense now as per Lilith — Chuck ‘did’ tell Metatron that he had boyfriends in the time between Season 5 and Season 11) because it appears he cannot suss Dean out. Sam he gets. (At least I think he does.)

        That business about the Key to Death’s Library: Rowena had ‘one’ death so I guess she had one book. Dean lives a dangerous life and I bet his books are being rewritten all the time. The books don’t stop until he actually ‘does’ die. Most people have I think numerous times they could’ve turned right or left and gotten into a fatal accident; Dean would have ‘hundreds’ or ‘thousands’ of possible deaths.

        I wish they could bring back the first guy who played Death, he had majesty to him. Billie is cool and a good actress, she just does not have the steely gravitas of Julian Richings. He never laughed or smiled or even ‘unbent.’

        As a matter of fact, the other Three Horsemen and he appeared to have no connection. They were just gross. Well I always like Titus Welliver, even if he played a butthole. “Look at the Irish, THEY’RE ALL IRISH.”

  6. I admit it, I want to see something between Dean and Amara explored so that then Chuck can play the ‘jealous brother.’

    My husband won’t watch with me because he hates the whole premise of an evil God.

    1. I am not the least bit thrilled by the idea of an evil God, either. But I kinda roll with it by calling him just “Chuck” and not “God.” “God” seems to be like “Death” in the SPNverse, where it’s a job rather than a specific being. Which means that Chuck could be replaced by a kinder and more just God. That’s the ending I’d like to see.

  7. At first, I thought it unnecessary for Lilith to impersonate an ordinary girl, just so that she could lure a couple of hapless werewolves. If her mission was to destroy the Equalizer, it would seem more logical to attack Dean and Sam directly by ambushing them somewhere, thus eliminating the need for the werewolf brothers. But I guess the elaborate scheme was the result of Chuck’s “creative process.” He must have thought the more complicated plot would be more entertaining or interesting.

    Do you expect Lilith’s appearance to be a one off, or will she be playing a further role in the rest of the season?

    (I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if several other characters from the past pop up along the way to the finale.)

    Also, do you expect Amara, the most powerful woman in the entire series, to play a key role in defeating Chuck?

    1. She said she’d see them again, so I’m guessing that means yes.

      As for Amara, I was inclined to think she’d just been written out, but Dabb claimed in an interview from about two months ago that her relationship with Dean would be explored further later in the season.

      1. I shudder to think – the Nep Duo writing an episode with zero ties to past canon. Not that they ever held hard and fast to that rule but still I can only imagine the cluster*uck we will probably be exposed to.

        Chucks pervy interest in Dean? Intriguing but I refuse to get my hopes up as Dean girls have been burned way too many times. More than likely it will be dropped and never mentioned again. Unless of course the Nep Duo finds a way of writing it a most inappropriate, disturbing and creepy manner. Maybe they’ll sling a dog collar on Deans neck…

      2. Explore the relationship. Which could mean anything but probably will come down to “You know we share an eternal bond, of course I will help you defeat my out of control brother and no, I’m not putting that dog collar on for you.”
        Because I’m sure they would hand over an episode like Dean and Amara reuniting to those two hacks.

    2. Criminee, I just thought of them possibly bringing back Azazel or Alastair. Yikes. I don’t want to go thru THAT again.

      1. Yeah, I immediately thought of Alastair, since he’s been mentioned, too.

        I miss the old Death, too, but I gotta be honest–I’ve warmed to Billie as Death considerably.

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