The Official Supernatural: “Raising Hell” (15.02) Live Recap Thread

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It’s been a tough summer, so I’m way behind on my recaps and reviews. As of this review, I now have 51 episodes left to finish for previous seasons, plus the 18 after this one for the final (15th) season that started on October 10. That’s 70 total by next April. I currently have 151 coffees at $3 each on Ko-Fi (many thanks to those who have contributed so far!). If I get 300 coffees total, I will commit to doing one recap/review per week (retro or Season 15). If I get 400 coffees, I will commit to two. If I get 500 coffees, three reviews. If I get 600 coffees, four reviews. If I get 700 coffees, five reviews per week.

Other that that, any and all contributions are welcome! You can still find my reviews here of North Carolina ghost story books, and notes about my folklore research on Patreon.

My collected recaps and reviews of season one, which first appeared on Innsmouth Free Press, are up (with a few extras) on Kindle. The Kindle version is available through Amazon. The print version is also up. If you buy the print version, you get a Kindle copy thrown in for free. I also get paid if you get it on Kindle Unlimited (for free), read the Kindle version, or lend it to a friend via the Kindle Owners Lending Library. Reviews also help with sales. Just FYI.

Scroll down to find links to all of my recaps and reviews of all seasons up to this point.

Recap: Recap of events up to this point. No rock music this time to distract from the stupidity.

Cut to Now in Harlan, KS, where a soccer mom is sneaking back into town to get her daughter’s asthma meds (why didn’t she grab them when she evacuated?) after dark. This woman is so dumb that when her very tall neighbor pops up in his bathrobe, she starts babbling small talk about her daughter’s spelling bee instead of being alarmed. It’s only when he walks toward her, never speaking, that she gets confused. By then, it’s too late. He stabs her to death.

Then he collapses as a ghost dusts out of him. The one looks like an Old West sheriff. In a Southern accent, he spells out the word “disembowel,” which is what he just did to the woman.

Cue title cards.

Back at the makeshift shelter in the local high school, Castiel is telling Sam that Doomed Teaser Soccer Mom (named “Nan”) is missing. Sam asks a nearby Hunter who has come in to help them with this latest apocalypse to go find out what’s happening with that. Then Sam gets up to make the least inspired speech ever to the restless townspeople, who all have questions he can’t answer. And why is Sam suddenly so socially awkward?

Meanwhile, Dean is being far more effective, patrolling the border of the town with Belphegor. Dean questions again why Belphegor is helping TFW and Belphegor says he just wants to put Hell back the way it was.

Their conversation is interrupted by a ghost trying the barrier. Dean comments that means it’s holding and Belphegor points out that won’t last. Dean shoots the ghost and it’s the one from the teaser. Belphegor identifies him as Frances Tumblety, AKA Jack the Ripper. Aside from the fact that Tumblety is one of the less credible candidates for Jack, he also was the son of Irish immigrants and grew up in Upstate New York. Bottom line? He would not sound Southern. But sure, Show, let’s just handwave that and make the quintessential British serial killer an American gentleman from the South. Why not?

Cut to daytime at the school auditorium, with three more moronic civilians deciding to sneak in and find DTSM. And sneak in they do, this time in broad daylight. [facepalm]

Meanwhile, Jack (the Ripper) is having a meeting with some seriously solid-looking and unscary ghosts. There’s a brief opportunity (when a ghost looks out an upstairs window when viewed from the street) to show her fading out from it. But aside from a brief shot of someone flickering down the staircase (in about the least scary way possible), these ghosts look like the living, but in stage makeup. Yay.

JacktR’s master plan? To break out of the barrier and engage in more murderous shenanigans. Just … you know … worldwide. In other words, he doesn’t really have a plan aside from breaking out. Strike Two and a whiff at making a situation, that should have been terrifying, even remotely chill-inducing.

As they sneak in, the village idiots hear the Hunters they evaded shooting at some ghosts. Then they encounter some more ghosts. They are shocked and scared, but it’s a little late. Especially since they don’t then do anything intelligent. Like run.

Back at the school, Sam and Castiel are arguing about what to tell the townspeople. Sam insists they can’t tell them anything about what’s really happening because the civilians are “barely holding it together.” Hmm, not so much, Sam. I see no evidence of that. If anything, they’re in a quite-cheerful-and-ridiculously-dangerous denial bubble that needed popping last week.

Rowena arrives in the middle of this: “Am I interrupting something juicy?”

So, the plan they want help from her about is to get her to create another crystal like the soul bomb they were going to use on Amara back in season 11. Rowena isn’t so sure she can pull that off a second time (also, was it really necessary to give Rowena a Dumb on Cue moment where Sam tells her that ghosts are souls, when she knew that in season 11?).

The conversation is interrupted by my favorite remaining Redshirt Hunter left alive popping up and saying they’ve got a problem. She then, alas, promptly disappears from the episode, but hey, at least the actress gets paid more for having a line than not. And we now have confirmation the character survived Rowena!Michael’s rampage last season.

Sam comes rushing out to the barrier, where Dean and Belphegor are looking at DTSM’s husband and their neighbor, who got ambushed by ghosts in the previous scene. Despite their obviously being possessed, Sam tries to reason with them and Dean gets smacked with a plot anvil to say, “They’re possessed!” when they start bleeding black goo tears.

JacktR appears out of nowhere. He demands that TFW let him and the other ghosts out, or he’ll kill the civilians. The possessing ghosts start ripping into the guts of the possessed people. Rather than having Sam and Dean solve this one the way they usually one (a saltgun charge to the chest), this is a moment for Ketch to make a grand entrance with a fancy new gun that shoots iron flakes that de-possess people. ‘Cause why use something that’s worked for 14 seasons when you can just make up something complicated and new?

Anyhoo, the gun works and all three ghosts flee while the civilians collapse. We never find out if they survived or not. In fact, they are not mentioned again.

FYI, if you’re not a fan of Ketch popping in like this, don’t worry. This is almost the last time he’ll get to be smart in the episode.

While explaining all this backstory (and that he “liberated” the gun from the LoL), Ketch flirts with Rowena (who, if you’ll recall, he once tortured and got a life-preserving spell from in exchange for her freedom). Despite their ugly history, she’s into it. Oh, boy. I think I just threw up a little in my mouth.

Hurrying on, Belphegor comes in and introduces himself, and the Brothers explain that Chuck killed Jack (not the Ripper). Everyone besides Belphegor looks far more downcast than pretty much anyone in the room besides Sam likely would truly feel. Then Ketch admits with some chagrin that he’s there to assassinate Belphegor on behalf of a demon named Ardat (in real-world mythology, an Ancient Sumerian demon who may be another name for Lilith, so she probably knew Belphegor when they were human). Because the show just barely remembered that demons got kicked out of Hell, too, but not that most of these ghosts would also be demons by now.

Somewhere in Nevada, Amara is having a massage when she’s startled by her brother Chuck (who smites her masseuse and replaces her). She’s not thrilled to see Chuck. After Chuck starts babbling about how great the Game of Thrones ending was (please tell that was sarcasm, Show), she cuts him short and demands to know why he’s bothering her when they agreed “to give each other space.”

At the school, yet another idiot civilian is whinging to Castiel about the missing people and saying that TFW promised to keep them safe. Well, yeah, but not from your own stupidity, dude. The angelic eyeroll Castiel makes as he walks away is pretty epic, old school Castiel.

Meanwhile, Dean is grumbling in surprise to Rowena over the list of ingredients for the soul catcher (that’s what he ends up calling it). This confuses me. Wouldn’t Dean already have a good idea what the ingredients were from the last time Rowena made one?

Rowena asks him about Ketch (yep, they’re going down that rabbit hole). Dean tells her to keep her eyes on the apocalypse and find someone less creepy than Ketch to bed. He doesn’t mention the whole “Ketch banged my mom” thing, but you could say that’s in character.

As Dean goes off to do something alone in a room, Castiel comes in and they have A Talk. Castiel apologizes about not warning Dean and Sam about Jack Sue going off the rails before he murdered Mary. Dean tells him to stop.

Dean, as it turns out, is having a much worse existential crisis than “just” losing his mother or being mad at Castiel about it. He argues that it’s now clear that Chuck engineered everything about their lives, that Free Will is an illusion, and that they never had any choice. They were always just “rats in a maze.”

Castiel disagrees. Even though he’s angry at Chuck for killing Jack Sue. He insists that there is something still real: “We are.”

A lot of Destielers think this means the show finally made Destiel “real.” Except, not really. At no point in the conversation are Castiel and Dean talking about their friendship, relationship, bond, whatever you call it. You need some kind of anchor for the subtext and it’s just not there.

It’s clear that Castiel means that the “rats” are real, even if Chuck manipulated them six ways to Sunday, not that he and Dean have a true gay love that can pierce the bonds of death or the Fourth Wall. I’m not saying the show has never “gone there” (boy, did it ever go there in “Lily Sunder Has Some Regrets”), just that this is not one of those times.

Cut to night outside. Dean is patrolling with Ketch (why is Sam not doing any patrolling? Or, for that matter, Castiel?). Dean gives Ketch an ugly iron necklace to prevent possession. They talk some more about Chuck (whom Ketch always thought was “theoretical, more rumor than fact”) and then Ketch asks about Rowena. Oh, God, really, Show?

Fortunately, Dean gets a text alert that two Hunters have disappeared on patrol. So, they investigate a creepy warehouse (and don’t find the Hunters). Dean’s breath mists up. First Ketch and then Dean get knocked about by Lizzie Borden. But she’s called off by another ghost. Who turns out to be Ghost!Kevin.

Kevin is friendly and reasonably sane. He tells Dean he was going to contact them sooner, but he “just got here.” He breaks the bad news to Dean that Chuck sent him to Hell after promising to take him to Heaven – for reasons that remain entirely murky for the rest of the episode. The general theory in-show seems to be that Chuck did it for kicks. Kevin also warns them that he can feel the ghost warding fading. We never do find out what happened to those Hunters.

It turns out that because Chuck himself cast Kevin down, he has some scary rep with the ghosts that allows him some control. Dean suggests Kevin go undercover for them and Kevin smiles.

Back at Amara’s … hotel room? … Chuck has ordered a burger and is watching TV, but gets restless when it doesn’t arrive right away. Surely, he could just make his own waitstaff and his own burger.

Amara is trying to ignore him by doing yoga as he babbles on about being “on an extended break from my omniscient benevolence.” He wants the two of them to leave the world behind, even go to another dimension. Amara says no, that she has no interest in spending any time with him.

After some confusion, she realizes that he needs her for the first time ever (and he calls her his “big sis”). She touches his shoulder and sees the wound Sam shot him with. She realizes he’s “not at full strength” and is “afraid.” Chuck doesn’t look thrilled at her epiphany.

So, the next day, Sam and Dean are out patrolling again. Oh, hey, Sam does do that. As Sam dithers about the drawbacks of having Kevin go undercover, Dean points out their options are limited.

Sam snaps at Belphegor when the demon appears behind them, and complains that the warding is fading. When Dean tells the demon to charge it back up, Belphegor says that’s not possible with this kind of spell. Also, when Dean tells him they’re going to send Kevin up to Heaven afterward, Belphegor says that’s not possible. Once you go to Hell, you go to Hell. John and Bobby (Dean doesn’t mention himself) were exceptions that Chuck made himself. No one but Chuck can make exceptions.

Meanwhile, Chuck is exposing his wound, which is a twin to Sam’s, and touches it. He winces and in Harlan, so does Sam. Dean notices and doesn’t believe Sam’s protests that it’s “getting better.”

Back at the suburban house, JacktR is getting the other ghosts to try to break through the barrier as it weakens. Kevin ghosts in at that point. Kevin challenges JacktR, but it doesn’t go well. It turns out JacktR isn’t very impressed by Kevin and he knows Kevin was a Prophet who worked with the Winchesters. Kevin ends up their prisoner.

Back at the school, Rowena is cooking things up for her spell, and talking about right-brain vs. left-brain with Ketch. They flirt heavily (with some pretty bad double entendre dialogue nobody needed to hear and some terrible Bow Chicka Wow Wow soundtrack music). Ketch even finds a shortcut in her research that really turns Rowena on (and will be the last time in the episode that he’s smart).

Fortunately for the audience, Dean calls at that moment, pretty literally cock-blocking this interaction.

Cut to Rowena trotting down the street with a bag. For some reason (plot stupidity, it seems), she crosses through the barrier as a shortcut. JacktR shows up, and tells her to go tell Sam and Dean that he has Kevin and is willing to trade. Or something. It turns out he has a history with Rowena and that she barely survived their “relationship” a century and a half ago. Ketch shows up and tells Rowena to run, then shoots JacktR. But JacktR appears behind him and knocks him out as Rowena runs away.

So, Rowena gets to the Brothers and tells them the news. They show up at the house where the ghosts are holed up. JacktR starts “eating” Kevin in front of Sam and Dean to force them to comply with his demands, but it’s a trap. Rowena comes in with Castiel, and the soul catcher and gets most of the ghosts (but not Jack and three others). Rowena admits afterward that this crystal is less powerful than the last one and can only catch some ghosts at a time (why not use the original one?).

Back behind the barrier, Dean and Belphegor are talking about how its fading. Ketch shows up from inside the barrier, apparently okay. Dean shoots through the barrier at the ghosts, hitting some of them. Rowena and Castiel show up, and Rowena enters the barrier to suck up more ghosts. Ketch is standing beside her. It works … until Ketch backhands Rowena and grabs the crystal. He’s possessed by JacktR. The three other ghosts who escaped the house with him also show up, but they just stand there, grinning.

Unfortunately for Ketch!JacktR, he indulges in a bit of monologuing about how the crystal gives him the power to blow out the barrier. And gloating when Dean’s saltgun runs out. But Dean then just pulls out his pistol and shoots Ketch in the shoulder, twice. The crystal flies out of Ketch’s hand and Dean catches it. As JacktR morphs out of a collapsing Ketch, Dean hands the crystal to Rowena, who uses the crystal on the angry ghosts, with special venom reserved for JacktR.

We get little chance for suspense about whether Ketch is really dead. After the commercial break, he’s on a stretcher, going away in an ambulance as Dean sort-of (but not really) apologizes for shooting him with iron bullets. Ketch says, well, Dean killed him once, already, and he must have been “itching to do it again.” Except that Dean didn’t kill Ketch last time. That was Mary.

Castiel tries to heal Ketch’s wound, but worriedly admits to Sam afterward that he can’t. Sam shrugs it off as everyone being tired.

Ketch and Rowena share a lingering look as he’s put in the ambulance. Then she and Dean share a look. Yeah, we really didn’t need that subplot.

In the coda, Sam tells Dean that Kevin wants to leave the barrier. Kevin says he’d rather take his chances going crazy in the world than go back to Hell. It turns out that Belphegor can make a small hole in the barrier (but he can’t power it back up? Okay). Kevin says goodbye to the Brothers and says, “Love you guys.” Then he goes out through the hole and disappears. Belphegor, by the way, is inside the barrier with the Brothers when Kevin leaves. Wouldn’t he, too, be stuck inside it?

Cut to Amara, who has power-suited up and is heading out. She says she’s willing to co-exist with Chuck, just not in the same part of the multiverse. She’s guessed that he is way powered down (only able to “do a few parlor tricks”) and can’t leave the Earth without her help. She says she’s changed, but he hasn’t. She’s ditching him and gloats a bit that she’s now sealing him away as he once did her. She tells him he’s “got what you always wanted – you’re on your own.” And she leaves.

Back at the barrier, ghost fireballs are bombarding it. It’s weakening. Everyone, including Sam, looks at Dean and says they have to stop the ghosts from getting out. Dean’s like, “How?!”


The show got a 0.3/2 and 1.16 million in audience. Yes, that is another series low in audience, but the show still tied with Arrow for second place in demo and came in third in audience behind The Flash and Batwoman. I think it was one of only three CW shows last week to top a million. ‘Cause that’s how the CW rolls these days.

The preview for next week is up.

Review: Lord, was that one sure daft. I mean, it passed the time well enough, I guess, but it was frequently stupid. And busy. This writing duo has surely written worse, but then, we are talking about the same duo that thought a story involving a black woman in a dog collar, who was literally a dog and whose master was white, would somehow not be problematical at all. And then we had last week’s episode. So, that bar was already Limbo-low.

The episode had plotholes and changed-up canon galore, and an awful lot of characters on both sides of the story acting stupid just to move things along. Others were simply dropped with no resolution to their subplot, such as DTSM’s husband (who may or may not now be dead) and daughter (who may or may not now be an orphan, but is certainly now motherless since TFW found her mother’s body offscreen), or the two Hunters who disappeared through a plothole in a warehouse, never to be heard from again.

Then there was that moment when Ketch accused Dean of killing him once, already. While Dean has certainly tried, multiple times, to kill Ketch, it was Dean’s mother Mary who actually succeeded. And while I don’t mind Rowena getting her freak on however she wants, having her hook up with the male GOTW every time, just because, is kinda gross and demeaning for her character. What, it’s okay to trash Dean for hooking up with random women (which he hardly does anymore, anyway), but when Rowena does it, she gets a fandom High Five? Really?

Not to mention that Rowena’s being into Ketch after his torturing her in their last encounter isn’t kinky. It’s just nasty. We already know what Ketch torturing a woman he’s attracted to looks like and we saw Mary trying to shoot herself to get out of the situation. Oh, hell, no. Rowena deserves better. And, as Dean pointed out, higher standards.

I’m not entirely sure where the show is going with all these guest stars. There’s a distinct possibility that Rowena will check out of Hotel Winchester permanently next episode. But whether we’ve seen the last of Ketch (who is still alive, though with a wound Castiel can’t heal) and Kevin (who is a ghost, but still “alive” as a character in the story) is unclear. And I don’t think it’s unclear for the sake of suspense. I think it’s unclear for the same reason we never found out what happened to most of the redshirt characters this week – lazy and sloppy writing. The calling card of the Nepotism Duo who wrote this episode, but also business as usual for the writers room under their questionable leadership.

There are two fan misconceptions that have come out of this episode. I mentioned the first one, already – that when Castiel said that “we” were “real” to Dean’s “rats in a maze” speech, there’s no actual indication that he was talking about his relationship with Dean. He just meant that Free Will was a real thing for Chuck’s creatures, even if Chuck has manipulated them a lot and frequently acted as a puppet master.

I can’t say that I’ve been impressed by what we’ve got of either Dean or Castiel so far this season, let alone of them together. Mostly, they grump at each other about Jack. Dean saves the day (after all the guest star grandstanding this week and obsession with Sam’s new Speshul Storyline, ruthlessly save the day is precisely what Dean did). Castiel tries to heal people and can’t (or hovers over Rowena’s shoulder for some reason). I sure hope things pick up for both of them or this is gonna be a very long season.

The other misconception is about Sam’s wound. I see a lot of spec that Sam will get special, even godlike, superpowers from his connection to Chuck. While I wouldn’t put anything past these writers, that’s not how the connection has been set up so far. Chuck said last season about his weapon that whatever was visited on the person shot by the gun would also be visited on the shooter. Dean suggested the example that if the person shot died, so would the shooter, and Chuck confirmed this.

The thing is that in order for Sam to gain powers from Chuck, there would need to be a transfer of power. But in Chuck’s explanation, that’s not the case. Instead, it’s a transfer and sharing of damage from the gun. It’s more like sympathetic magic (sticking a pin in an object to cause harm to a person the object represents) than the vampiric power transfer of power this fan theory assumes.

While Chuck is definitely getting weaker, that doesn’t mean Sam is getting stronger. There’s no evidence that Sam is becoming, let alone replacing, Chuck, just that he is sharing Chuck’s growing pain and weakness.

This brings up a rather disturbing idea – is Chuck dying? If so, will the balance between Light and Dark be disrupted, destroying the SPNverse? Did Sam’s impulsive stupidity just doom the world (wouldn’t be the first time).

Is this what may bring Amara back to help TFW? She still doesn’t appear to care much about humans if her verbal shrug after Chuck smote her masseuse for kicks is any indication. So, I guess worrying about humanity still isn’t her thing. Then again, this version of Amara doesn’t seem to care about anything except hedonism and has totally forgotten about her bond with Dean Winchester. So, it’s hard to tell whether we’ve seen the last of her or she’s just going through an ennui phase.

Speaking of Chuck and Amara, their pettiness makes them too human and not godlike enough in this episode. I’m not talking about a conscious choice to make them petty (Greek gods were petty, too), but that they are portrayed thinking and caring about things that they shouldn’t and wouldn’t care about.

For example, why is Chuck complaining about not getting food when he doesn’t need to eat and could conjure up anything he wants, including the waitstaff? I can sort of see Amara liking massages, but what is the attraction for her in meditation? And why is she so slow to notice her brother’s condition when they are permanently and psychically linked (“Yin and Yang,” as Amara puts it)? Why is she unaware that Chuck opened Hell?

And what does Chuck know? When he touches his wound, there is no indication in the story that he is aware that Sam can feel it, too, or where Sam is, or how the whole ghost army situation is going. Is he just not following his own story, anymore, even as he’s in the middle of it?

This seems like the usual thing the show does at this time of the season. At the end of the previous season, they introduce a Big Bad that turns out to be a little bit too Big and Bad. So, they have to rein in said BB for that character to last (and the Brothers to survive) until the end of the season. So, the show has elected to limit God. That doesn’t mean the way they’re writing this storyline makes much sense.

This is also a reason why the ghosts are such a dud as a mytharc storyline. As I noted last week, they are pretty much the opposite of ethereal and that makes them not-scary. SPN ghosts are noted for being crazy violent (literally), but that also means they are effectively mindless.

Having ghosts plotting and coming up with nefarious plans is a bit like writing zombie as actual characters who can think and pick locks. The whole point of Romeroesque zombies as something different from other revenants like vampires is that they can’t think. Similarly, the Supernatural version of ghosts can’t, either. And yet, here we are, with ghosts plotting to take over the world, and it’s as boring as salt-less oatmeal.

And that doesn’t mean the show can escape those limitations for this type of MOTW so easily, or without unfortunate implications for the story. The writing for Jack the Ripper, for example, is bog-standard awful. Not only did they pick an historical suspect who was American, but they then cast an actor who didn’t look or sound anything like how that candidate did in real life.

Nor does he act like Jack the Ripper in his kill pattern (except that he’s about as thunderously stupid in his Evil Overlord planning as you would expect for the ghost of a maniac killer who escaped capture largely due to police incompetence). In the teaser, he disembowels a woman. But that is the very least of what the real Jack the Ripper did.

He was a sexual sadist who butchered his female victims in highly sexual ways. His last known victim, Mary Jane Kelly, was the youngest and reputedly the prettiest of the women. The killer left her sprawled in a sexualized position, carved to pieces, with no face. None of that vicious vibe appears in the teaser for this episode, let alone later on.

Apparently, portraying a young black woman in a master-slave position with a white man, complete with dog collar, is A-okay for these writers. But portraying an attack by Jack the Ripper with anything approaching historical accuracy is a CW bridge too far. Well, don’t pick Jack the Ripper as your EVOL spokesghost, then.

The Kripke Years

Season 1

Season 2

Season 3

Season 4

Season 5

The Gamble Years

Season 6 (with Kripke)

Season 7

The Carver Years

Season 8

Season 9

Season 10

Season 11

The Dabb Years

Season 12

Season 13

Season 14

Season 15

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41 thoughts on “The Official Supernatural: “Raising Hell” (15.02) Live Recap Thread”

  1. Holy MOLEY!!

    Jared just got arrested for drunk, disorderly and assault (he punched a couple of people). TMZ has the tape and it’s really ‘there.’

    There is speculating if he’ll be able to film in CANADA if he is in a legal beef here in the US. Sure hope he can finish out the season.


    1. I saw that last night. I am skeptical it will affect his ability to return to filming in Canada. He would hardly be the first actor to be arrested, either in Canada or the U.S., while filming in Vancouver and Canada likes that money coming in. And he hasn’t been convicted, either, so it’s doubly unlikely. Unless he checks in to a rehab somewhere (also unlikely, but possible), I don’t see it affecting the show’s final season in any way. It might affect his Walker job, but not necessarily.

      Some fans are, predictably, losing their shit over not much (not loving the attempts to woobie him or make him the victim, though). Yeah, it was…startling to hear he’d been arrested, but mostly that’s because the SPN cast have been remarkably good at keeping their noses clean for a decade and a half. But as long as nobody got seriously hurt, it’s basically a bar fight where he got drunk and stupid, and threw some punches. Not great, but definitely not at the level of sexual assault or murder, either (those are and should be career-killers).

      1. It’s more than just a bar fight. He’s an investor in the club ( not sure what his ownership percentage is ) and 2 of the people that he assaulted were employees that have now filed assault charges against him.

        1. Yeah, the most concerning thing about it is that he is involved with the club in some way and a regular there. So, there may have been some kind of power differential where he was trying to throw his weight around. Beyond that, I don’t think we can say just yet.

          But it still boils down to a bar fight that got out of hand. In some parts of the country, that’s known as “Saturday night.” Not saying it’s okay or that he shouldn’t have been arrested, but considering there are still sexual predators and murderers in Hollywood, out walking the streets and even with careers, I don’t see it being a career killer unless someone was seriously hurt. Katie Cassidy got busted for underage drinking and driving, and giving the cops a false identity, while she was working on the show, and she’s still working for the CW.

          1. True point but Katie was underage. Jared is a grown man with a family and a thriving career who should know better. This isn’t a good look for him.

            1. I don’t think it was a good look for either of them. But I’m a bit more concerned with the Sam stans who are now trying to pile on Ackles to make Padalecki look better, because of course they are.

                1. Yep, now they’ve latched onto that story he told a while back about the Montreal hotel room where his door was stuck. None of the staff could get it open because the electronic lock was on the fritz. Eventually, tired and kinda crabby (but cold sober), he asked them if they’d be okay with his kicking the door in. I don’t think they thought he could, but they said okay and he did, and he then went inside and went to sleep, with an open door. He must have been very tired. Reportedly, he also paid for the damage afterward.

                  This has now become a story about how Drunk!Asshole!Jensen kicked a door in to his room at a hotel.

                  The other slur that keeps going round is that he should have been there for Padalecki to calm him down or some such thing. Because apparently, these stans think Padalecki is a big man baby who has to be babysat by his co-star 24/7.

                  1. It’s sad that fans are as divided with Jared and Jensen as they are with Sam and Dean. Jensen has his own family and other friends. He shouldn’t be bashed for not being Jared’s babysitter. It’s perplexing how it’s not being said amongst these fans that Jared is a grown man who should be responsible and accountable for his own actions. It’s very much like how they like to absolve Sam ( and Cas ) from their mistakes and look for a way to make it Dean’s fault. It’s kind of disturbing when you think about it.

                    On topic: great review! I haven’t watched the episodes in their entirety just yet, just skimmed through. I’m considering waiting until the end of the season and binge watching after I know what to expect.

                    1. Yeah, I think they confuse the actors with the characters a lot. As for the fanbase break, I’ve been in the fandom since season 2 and I know exactly when it happened – right around the time “The Rapture” came out. Kripke intentionally created it by pitting the Brothers against each other, blaming that on Dean even as Sam was being written as a bigger and bigger asshole, and tongue-bathing the bigger Sam stans (to the point that some of them were getting big bts perks and even access to the cast for quite a while). You think they’re ugly now? You should have seen them near the end of season 4. It was bad. Fortunately, most of those idiots left after season 5.

                      Thanks about the review! The site had some serious difficulties over the weekend and I basically spent most of my free time and energy on yelling at Yahoo customer service in India until it was finally fixed. There was a bout of the same problem earlier in the month, as well. So, I’m behind on the SPN reviews and folklore stuff, but I will catch up. It’ll just go a bit into November. I had to catch up with classwork first. Had a huge lab to finish up yesterday and today.

                      As for binging, up to you, but it might be a good idea to wait until the series finishes out and then you’ll know what to expect.

              1. Why? Because Jensen was not there to keep Jared out of trouble?

                Please tell me WHY people are piling on Jensen. It appears he did not go out to get drunk on a Saturday night, what’s the issue there?

                1. It’s all whataboutism. As far as I can tell, they’re trying to use two past stories against him. One is that time he admitted he and some friends (he was driving) led the police on a merry chase down some back roads for reasons he won’t divulge. For that one, 1. he was, what, 17 at the time? and 2. he said his parents totally handed his ass to him. He paid for that and it’s not as though he did it twenty years later. Plus, he didn’t assault anyone.

                  The other one is the time Ackles and Padalecki got set on by a group of drunk guys in a case of mistaken identity in Vancouver during season 2 filming. But again, that was self defense. There’s also the claim that Ackles should have been there to babysit Padalecki, even though Padalecki was there with a friend and apparently got in a fight with the friend.

                  I notice the incident finally hushed up most of the more rabid Destielers, though. Thank God.

                  1. Ackles actually opened up a bit more about that car chase in the podcast he did with Michael Rosenbaum recently. Something about a paintball gun.

                    1. Thanks! FYI, in future, can you just include a little bit about what’s in a link? I get a lot of spam about porn and fake drugs and such that only includes buggy links in the comment. Commentary helps me sort out the real, on-top comments from the spambot ones.

          2. I do not think it was a ‘bar fight’ a bar fight implies more than one person hitting. It appeared from my reading that the bartender (also the asst mgr) cut him off and he hit the guy. THEN the asst mgr called the HEAD mgr and he came over from another bar Jared owns and ALSO got punched. I don’t know if it was Steve Carlson (there was a picture of Steve and Jared posted that evening) that got caught in the headlock when he tried to get Jared out of there. Then the mgr called the cops and then Jared ‘laid hands on’ one of the officers (don’t quite know if that means pushing or what).

            I gather Jared has invested HIS money into bars in the Austin area and Jensen has invested HIS money into his brewery (I think he has more than one now but am unsure).
            The name of the bar is Stereotype (?) and I think it was opening weekend and he was there to ‘drum up’ the crowd.
            This is all very strange to me. He really is WAY too old to be getting into fights in his OWN ESTABLISHMENT and it appears his employees ARE pressing charges, so this just won’t go away.
            Anyway, twitter is making Jared into the victim here and that ticks me off.

            1. As far as I know, Ackles only has the one brewery, but he may be doing a record label with his bud now, too? I’ve noticed that a fair bit of his businesses are about employing other artists, friends and family he knows who are struggling. The idea is that he’s spreading his success around to other people in the industry who are less successful. Whether Padalecki was doing that with his clubs, I don’t know, since I didn’t even know he owned any. The difference here is that what Padalecki did would be a bit like if Ackles were hanging out at the brewery, getting drunk and harassing people.

              The way I see it, this was a mistake, but it certainly isn’t one his career can’t come back from. All he has to do is own it, pay his fines, and figure out how not to do it again. Twitter trying to make him a victim is very irritating, though, and not helpful.

  2. And ‘where’ is Mama Tran, I must ask? Did Kevin go back to wherever and decide to hang out at his mama’s house again? I ‘think’ part of what makes a vengeful spirit is watching their whole world die and not being ‘connected’ any longer. Kevin ‘knew’ what was going on (better than Bobby it appears) and did not go crazy in The Veil in the first place.

    My opinion on Cas v Dean: whenever Castiel has the chance to exercise free will and MAKE a damn decision he chooses wrongly. From what Dean said, it appeared he ‘knew’ that Belphegor was going to double-cross them and he would’ve figured it out later.

    He was pissed about Rowena dying AND about SAM feeling awful about Rowena dying. That is why he dumped on Castiel.

    I also wonder why Castiel did not say what Bel was ‘really’ doing, but then it appeared ‘also’ that Dean was not in the least bit surprised that Bel was doing that.

    I love Lane Davies and do not care about him having a southern accent. Actually it did not sound ‘that’ southern to me, but I will watch again to figure out if I hear what you heard.

    I think a lot about these things: by Ketch’s last act of ‘honor’ he earned Heaven (I think) the way Lily Sunder did (saving Jack’s life using the last of her soul). For me it was important that he had the chance to do the right thing and he did it. (BUT it was as funny as the scene in True Romance in which Christopher Walker kills Dennis Hopper because he won’t tell him where his son is, and then they find the address/tele# on the fridge.)

    Ardat was played by the actress who was the demon that Bobby practiced burning her bones (so he could threaten Crowley and get his soul back).

    Why was Castiel so ‘impressed’ with Ardat’s plea: you don’t know what he REALLY is — we just saw her rip Ketch’s heart out of his chest, why should I ‘care’ anything for her opinion? I mean, the horn was out, I think SHE would’ve done exactly what Bel tried to do.

    Were half the souls in Bel and destroyed when Castiel smote the hell out of Bel and then the other half in Rowena?

    I was visibly confused by much of the episode.

    ONE thing I liked about the first three episodes of the season was seeing an acting-class in ANGER and ANGER MANAGEMENT. Dean was trying so hard to keep it together. I won’t like seeing Castiel gone for long but Dean ‘had’ to tell him he was angry and not over it yet and maybe never. I don’t see why he appeared to blame Castiel more for Mary’s death than Jack who actually did it, but I guess he expected Castiel to TELL him Jack was going cuckoo for cocoa puffs.

    1. Speaking of killing off characters… they’re running low on red shirts. I was trying to come up with a list of Winchester friends and allies still standing and it’s woefully short. Here’s what I’ve got so far – Cas, Anael, Naomi and whoever’s left in Heaven. Garth. AUBobby, AUCharlie and whoever is left after Michael/Rowena slaughter. Jody, Donna and the Waywards. Warlock and Stick Girl. The girl who killed the Vetala and her crew. However many remaining hunters are out there.

      Frenemies? Dark Kia. Amara. That warlock(?) guy that “helped” Cas out with Gabriel’s grace who said the Winchesters owe him one. Death. Chuck (possibly).

      So who am I missing? As far as powers go, losing Rowena knocked a big chess piece off the board

      1. I think it depends. If the writers choose to remember that Heaven is about to fall apart, all the souls of their allies who went to Heaven will get into the mix again very soon. It’s only those who are stuck permanently in Hell or the Empty (unless that opens up, too) who will be gone “forever.”

    2. I’m not too happy about the disappearance of Mama Tran, either. I mean, she is still alive.

      I don’t think we can assume Ketch got into Heaven, if Chuck is now actively interfering with people’s fates. I agree that under normal circumstances, Anubis’ abacus would likely play out in Ketch’s favor, but Chuck can arbitrarily ignore all and any of that.

      I think Castiel listened to Belphegor and Ardat because they were both, each in their way, telling him what he wanted to hear. He wanted an excuse to kill Belphegor, but he knew that would be a huge mistake. So, he wanted an excuse to make that mistake Dean’s fault.

      I have no idea what the writers think happened when Castiel smote Belphegor. I suspect we’re just supposed to see that storyline done and dusted, unless Rowena somehow resurrects later on.

      I think what Dean blames Castiel for is choosing Jack so consistently over the rest of TFW, to the point of actively protecting Jack when he was clearly becoming a danger to everyone else. Dean and Castiel have been close friends for years, yet Castiel keeps choosing the unstable and dangerously volatile god-child, and supporting Jack, until Jack did something unforgivable (murdering Mary).

      On top of that, Castiel was so caught up in his manpain that he prioritized his own grief over saving the world. Dean put himself in extreme danger doing his part. Sam was forced to kill Rowena. Rowena died horribly and ended up in Hell. So, it makes sense that Dean’s going to be really salty that all this happened and that their risking/losing their lives occurred in large part because Castiel dropped the ball (only Castiel thought anybody thought Belphegor would be either trustworthy or reliable).

      1. I just remembered that Castiel stole THE COLT and was responsible for Dagon being able to destroy it.

        He ‘played’ Dean to get it.

        Tell me again why Dean should trust Castiel beyond all reason?

        1. He shouldn’t. The comment that has everyone all up in arms, where Dean notes that when things go wrong, Castiel is frequently involved, isn’t actually inaccurate. Castiel makes a *lot* of mistakes and he also makes terrible decisions and judgment calls about trusting the wrong people. There’s nothing wrong with that when Castiel’s blunder this time got Rowena killed and condemned to a horrible fate in Hell. Dean *should* have called him out.

  3. Eh, still the big pile of crap. We came in a place where Ketch is better partner for Dean than Sam or Cas. Oh boy. And that Rowena flirt…they both deserve better, considering my standard for him is pretty low.
    The absolute worst thing about this writing team is that they do so much unpredictably bad stuff that I start to pull my hair out. They just outdo themselves every time. Now we theorize how Sam is not charging from Chuck and next thing you know theyll make him a nephelim or alien or else, you name it. Not to mention how they just DGAF about canon. Sometimes it feels like they’re just doing it on purpose. Not to mention how many stuff they drop criminally fast. Don’t want to spoil 15×3, but anyone who’s seen it understand what I mean. So yeah…At this point I should do the same thing writers did- start not giving a dawn. No wonder Jensen was freaked out when he has read the finale

    1. Well, apparently, now he’s a witch! [eyeroll] Admittedly, there was a time when Sam was learning witchcraft, but that ship sailed after Ruby bought her dirt nap and Sam then didn’t use any of the stuff she taught him. For years. But now he’s a witch and connected to Chuck and yadda, yadda, yadda.

      1. You (a long time ago) said you had decided both of them were shamans, that they knew spells and lore and how to put down the ‘beasties of the night’ and protect ‘the village.’

        Sam is the one that does most of the Latinating so at first I thought that was why Rowena wanted him: he had the ‘right’ accent (Crowley once said everything had to be pronounced correctly to work).

        Do they still have a ‘latin’ advisor on the show?

        I liked that Amara blew Chuck off. But they are such heedless ‘petty’ beings. Amara ‘could’ have brought back her masseuse, it pissed me off that it was just ‘eh’ when Chuck smote her.

        1. I classified them as such, yeah. But that’s because the main characteristic of the original definition of shamans (taken from Tungus and other northeastern Asian traditions) is of someone who can control spirits and (in some traditions) engage in spirit travel. The Brothers do salt-and-burns all the time. That’s their bread and butter, so yeah…shamans.

          I don’t think they’ve ever had a regular advisor in Latin, just someone they called in from time to time. Calvert’s pronunciation was awful.

          Yeah, I didn’t like that Amara didn’t even try to bring back her masseuse (who was also a woman of color). It seemed out of character, or at least very unsympathetic. But that’s what you can expect from the Nepotism Duo. Their scripts are loaded with Unfortunate Implications.

  4. The problem with Leming, anyhow, is that she was writing back in the 80s when continuity and character growth was not such a big thing (there were exceptions: Magnum, for example). It’s why on Scarecrow and Mrs. King Amanda and Francine would finally become friends one week then the next week Francine would be back to disdaining Amanda. And she hasn’t moved past that.

    1. The Nep Duo did the same thing on Lois and Clark in the 90s. Lois found out Clark’s Superman identity and then forgot it so many times by the end of the episode, it’s a wonder she didn’t have a stroke. Between the Nepotism Duo and Singer, SPN’s really been held back in some ways.

  5. Wait. Wait! Not only a young black woman in a master-slave position with a white man, complete with dog collar but a young black woman in a master-slave position who has sex with said white man, complete with dog collar! Gawd, I hate this writing duo.

    This episode was a typical Buck-Lemming mess. Few good points but mostly crap. They write characters from Point A to Point H – no regard to canon. Zero coherence or logic. Where did they get their credentials? Acme Writing College?

    I’m going to watch the third episode now. My expectations are abysmally low.

      1. Ok I watched #3. And for the most part I liked it. Have my expectations been lowered so much that anything remotely decent is gold? There were some spots that were annoying or head scratching but compared to NepDuo episode they were minor. One though? After Nu sucked up all those souls how in the name of Chuck did Cas summon up enough mojo to smite him? Last week he cant heal a simple bullet wound or two and this week he’s supercharged? Why the wavering powers? Heaven batteries running low? Is it from connecting with Sams God wound?

        So – “they gone”. Now that they are dead let’s see how long Dabb can resist the urge to bring them back. I hope he doesn’t. They had a perfect ending episode for Bobby and then completely ruined it by bringing him back again and again ad nauseum. Speaking of Jim B. I wonder how they will bring his character back for the 9 millionth time?

        I know he’s presently crispy critter but do you really believe NuJack is gone? Or Rowena for that matter? I could see them bringing her back if there’s a movie.

        We know Jake A. is returning so obviously Rowena’s spell didn’t work as thoroughly as they hoped. Do you think they will bring Ruby back and do you think Danneel will reprise Anael one last time?

        Read something elsewhere which made me think. Lot of bitching about how mean Deans being. Angry…
        Deans obviously angry and holding in all the rage and pain he’s feeling. When NuJack commented on how he as a fan watched Dean artfully torture, reminding him of what hes done and is capable of doing, Dean replied that it was a long time ago but his eyes showed differently. You could see in his mind that the memories were as fresh as if it were yesterday. Kudos Ackles!!! Dean knows what he is capable of. He’s doing his best to keep everything tamped down but I think he’s losing the battle. He’s not just angry. He’s pissed. And I wouldn’t want to be Chuck because he has a pissed off Dean Winchester on his trail. Question. Is Dean fearful of what he’s capable of or looking forward to it?

        So much bitching going on about “the break up”. Dean laid out some necessary truths. Yeah he was harsh and could have rephrased but he is right. Cas has screwed up so many times. Cas did have to react to the rapidly changing fluid situation while in Hell so it’s hard to judge him there but he did foolishly open the box. All this time he didn’t trust NuJack and when push came to shove that’s when he decided to? Why did he take NuJacks word for everything? If he had doubts then why couldn’t he have just brought the box back with him? Dean couldn’t know everything about how it all went down or he wouldn’t blame Cas for killing him. NuJack had become NuSoulJack. Cas had no choice. I wouldn’t be “Leaning on the Edge Dean” in the dark about anything right now tho Cas did say he tried repeatedly to talk to him so maybe he just gave up. But why didn’t he just reach out to Sam then?

        1. The episode moved along, but let’s just say Berens is no Ben Edlund in terms of filling in and tying up plotholes. And all the emotional manipulation of the audience to woobie Castiel and handwave the many and legitimate issues with his behavior (especially of late) gave me a fan rash. As late as last week, the writers were making it abundantly clear that Castiel’s obsession over Jack was still causing him to make serious errors in judgement and not notice things he should have noticed. I think Belphegor was able to manipulate Castiel as easily as he did because those were the excuses Castiel wanted to hear. Castiel has done a lot of bad things in the past and killed a lot of people–human, angel and demon. And he didn’t always do so on the side of Good. The last thing he wants to hear is that Dean is frustrated and angry with him *because* Dean has cause. We can argue all day long that it wasn’t entirely his fault Belphegor got the drop on him, but Dean specifically sent him down there because Dean knew Castiel didn’t trust Belphegor. And then Castiel, like a dumbass, did just that.

          I did find it curious that Castiel couldn’t muster the energy to heal, but he could in order to overkill smite.

          I’m leaning toward Belphegor not coming back. He was basically a stand-in character to justify having Calvert in the mytharc stuff. We’ll now have a run of MOTWs and by the time we come back to mytharc, we’ll probably get Jack again (ugh). The writers have confirmed Jack Sue is returning, so midseason is about the right time for him to come back and take over the mytharc like kudzu again.

          As far as Rowena, I think she’s probably dead for good. If new writers come in, they’d certainly resurrect her, and it was a lousy way to send her off, but the season does need some character send-offs and cullings, and the writers seem to think that means killing them all. I guess Kevin is returning, though, since we didn’t see him get sucked back into the big CGI vagina, even though he should have been. Then again, I wouldn’t put it past these writers to keep bringing characters back, over and over again. Looks like we’re getting more alt-verse, too.

          I’d like to believe we’re going to see something juicy for Dean, but my main impression of the past three episodes is that the current writers have run completely run out of gas and are now phoning it in. These episodes remind me of mid-90s X-Men comics in which entire issues were devoted to mindless team vs. team smackdowns because those were a lot easier to write than actual plot and character development. I see a lot of spaghetti on the wall so far this season and most of it looks moldy.

        2. I read SPN stories on Archive of Our Own (AO3) and there must’ve been 3doz already posted about things Castiel SHOULD have said to Mean Dean.

          1. The general impression I get from that kerfuffle is that the more immature fans of the show have latched onto Castiel with a vengeance and gotten way overinvested in a teenage girl’s image of what a grown-up man and a half-billion year angel would have as a relationship.

            Dean’s got legit reasons for being angry with Castiel and he’s not wrong that Castiel screws up pretty much all the time (and every time he makes his own decisions). Plus, Castiel is still lying to him about major things like Heaven being about to fall apart and his deal with the Empty. I think part of Castiel’s whinging is fueled by the fear that Dean will find out about all the secreths and lieths he *doesn’t* know about yet and get even angrier.

            1. I think Castiel wants to me Dean’s SAM; that was what Crowley wanted (another being who would DIE ‘for’ him and back him even when he was wrong).
              Everybody seems to want to be Dean’s Plus One (and I am not making it sexual — though for Crowley I think it was also sexual).

              1. For Crowley, it was definitely sexual. I like the idea of Castiel wanting to be Dean’s Sam, given that angelic love appears more fraternal in nature. Interesting that in the beginning, Castiel seemed to want to take on the “older brother” nature, but it reversed later.

                1. Oh, it was unquestionably sexual with Crowley. The show couldn’t have been more obvious about that. They even heavily implied that he and Dean had had group sex together. With Castiel, it’s more asexual, but also omnieverything. Angels love obsessively, completely, and across the spectrum, as we saw in “Lily Sunder Has Some Regrets.”

              2. Castiel definitely wants to replace Sam in Dean’s world. And he knows it will never happen (at least, not in this permutation of the show), so he’s salty about it.

        3. Maybe while ‘sucking in’ the souls Bel was vulnerable to an attack?
          Castiel said his powers were fading; I think he blew his WHOLE WAD killing Belphegor.
          I also think he WANTED to kill Belphegor since episode 1 because he literally (and I mean LITERALLY and TRULY) could not bear Belphegor possessing Jack’s body.
          One thing show has been doing is REALLY pissing me off. Remember the first episode last season, in which Castiel went to meet Kip (whom he knew was a demon) but did not notice that the WHOLE freakin’ bar was filled with demons.
          I thought angels could see ‘true faces’ and knew what angel was in a Vessel AND could see demons ‘true faces’ but the show seems to have just left that in the weeds.
          OR am I wrong and Castiel could NOT see demon essence from earlier seasons (hey, in Goodbye, Stranger Castiel knew all about the demons every step of the way — so I am sure I was right).
          AGAIN with the switches and it pisses me off.

          Also, most horrifying death in a long time: Ardat pulling out Ketch’s heart and it still beating and still alive and she CRUSHES his heart while he is watching. THAT was old style Supernatural but these episodes are just WAY TOO BRIGHT. All three of them. What is it, people had NO NIGHT SCENES written into their contracts? Can’t see that, but don’t want to see all daylight scenes the rest of the season!

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