The Official Supernatural: “Bring ’em Back Alive” (13.18) Live Recap Thread

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Recap of Gabriel, Mary and Jack in the alt-SPNverse, and the last few minutes of the previous episode.

Cut to Now, where Dean and Ketch appear in the alt-verse and it’s now winter (probably because it was winter in Vancouver when they filmed this). Dean is having trouble getting his bearings, which gives Ketch the opening to suggest he might tag along as “backup.” Dean is skeptical, but lets him.

Ketch starts to realize they’re not in Kansas, anymore, when they pass a charred body tied to a tree as they go under a bridge. Dean tells him to get down when some angels start to cross the bridge then stop. They have prisoners, whom they randomly proceed to execute on the bridge for crimes of rebelling against Michael.

They kill the first two, even as Ketch is restraining Dean from interfering. Then they get to the last one. After they uncover her hood, the head angel actually stops the other one, giving Dean time to get a good look at her and see it’s the alt-SPNverse of Charlie.


Cue title cards.

Look, I get that some fans really loved and missed Charlie (though there’s a good bit of evidence they were and are a minority of the fandom), but I was not one of them. And I can’t say Felicia Day’s acting has improved in the interim. The writing for Charlie (this is a Nepotism Duo ep, so keep your expectations low) certainly hasn’t, remaining so terrible that it belongs in another show.

So, Charlie gets hit on by the head angel, who calls her “not the usual human scum.” Oh, God help us, please move on, Show. After some infodumping about her being in the “inner circle” of the rebellion, which is apparently now being led by Mary and Jack, so Dean can conveniently overhear and get his bearings, they decide to take her back to the “Northern Camp” and fly off with her.

Back at the Bunker, Castiel (remember him?) has returned and is extremely not-thrilled to hear that Dean has gone off to the alt-SPNverse. When Sam tries to reassure him by saying that Ketch went with Dean, Castiel snarks, “Because that’s so much better!”

Sam says that Dean insisted on going alone and that they need to take care of Gabriel. Castiel becomes more subdued when they come to Gabriel’s room and he sees the condition his elder brother is in.

Sam, for some reason, has brought in food (angels don’t need to eat). He explains that Gabriel has suffered from years of torture and having his grace drained. It turns out he hasn’t brought food, per se, but some of Gabriel’s own grace to restore him. When they try to give it to Gabriel, though, he refuses to open his mouth and scrambles away from them in terror.

Up on Heaven, Lucifer is playing Solitaire (literally: He’s playing a card game) when Sister Jo comes in. She is unhappy that he is sitting around, expecting to be worshiped, doing nothing to improve the angels’ situation. When Duma comes in, Lucifer tries to draw her into cowing Jo, but Duma refuses to get involved. Duma also wants to know when Lucifer is going to start doing things to help Heaven, but all Lucifer is interested in is where is Jack. Duma says there are very few angels left and they can’t find him. As his eyes glow threateningly, Lucifer tells her to try harder. Frightened, Duma leaves.

Less impressed, Jo also leaves, telling Lucifer that if he wants to be treated like God, he needs to start acting like Him.

In his demon lair, Asmodeus is grumpy that he can’t find Gabriel, or even sense him. He bullies a terrified demon, rather like Lucifer bullying Duma. Lotta pointless macho posturing in this episode.

In alt-SPNverse, Dean is trying to get to where Charlie is so he can rescue her and (ostensibly) find Mary and Jack. Ketch calls him on it, saying that Dean is making it personal for some reason. Ketch is frustrated by Dean’s lack of stealth (though Dean makes a good point that they need speed over stealth right now) and this catches up to Dean when a human bounty hunter shoots him and tries to capture him to take him to a POW camp. Ketch gets into a fight with the man, but it’s not until Dean gets up and shoots the man in the kneecap that the man talks. They find out where the camp is and head there.

At the Bunker, Castiel tries to talk to Gabriel, who has covered the walls of his room with symbols. It turns out to be Gabriel’s story since his apparent death. He faked it by letting Lucifer stab a fake him and think it was the real him.

Gabriel then moved to Monte Carlo and shacked up with porn stars. So, you could say he took on the persona of Charlie Sheen. He was then captured and sold to Asmodeus, who fed on his grace, going from the weakest of the Princes of Hell to the strongest. When Sam wonders why Gabriel is not speaking, Castiel says that maybe he can’t. Sam wonders if maybe Gabriel won’t speak, because he feels it’s safer.

Up in Heaven, Lucifer thinks a new suit and shades will make him God (has he seen how Dad dressed? Wait – yes, he has!). He then sits back down on his throne to hear the prayers of humans. But they are all begging and he deems them pathetic, not worth his time.

The chant of an exorcism, however, piques his interest, so he goes down to earth to investigate. In a parody of The Exorcist (film, TV show, take your pick), two priests are trying to exorcise a young woman, calling the demon inside her “Satan.” Lucifer points out that it’s just a minor demon named “Anthony” and exorcises it out through a vent. The young woman falls back onto the bed, unconscious.

When the younger priest asks who he is, Lucifer makes the mistake of telling them his true name. They’re shocked and horrified, prompting an annoyed rant from Lucifer about how Chuck made him the cosmic “fall guy.”

The priests freak out and start spattering him with holy water and prayers. Annoyed, Lucifer smites them into black smoke, then is annoyed at himself for doing so.

Back in alt-SPNverse (yeah, as usual with a Nep Duo script, far too many storylines and none of them done properly or in any depth), Dean starts to feel ill, but passes it off as nothing. Considering he doesn’t (and shouldn’t) trust Ketch as far as he can kick him in the nuts, I think that’s still pretty sensible. Unfortunately, his condition quickly deteriorates and he passes out into a tree in the middle of Ketch trying to snark an explanation about Charlie out of him. Ketch shows concern, determines that Dean has a high fever, and quickly discovers the bullet wound is a nasty black color that is spreading across Dean’s shoulder.

Ketch makes up an antidote out of some paste on the fly. As you do. It seems the symptoms are much like a poison the LoL used to incapacitate monsters and if you don’t get the antidote, you die a nasty death. Yay.  Oh, and the cure’s painful, too. Of course.

Back at the Bunker, Castiel is trying to angel-talk to Gabriel or read his mind or something. I dunno. Oh, I see. He’s saying he can’t heal Gabriel. He’s just trying to reach his older brother. Gabriel remains catatonic. Sam then tries to give Gabriel a pep-talk about how they’re both “different” from the rest of their family. Oh, Sam. Still banging away at that crap.

But, Sam adds, even though he got out (or thought he did), he realized that his family needed him, and that their mission is also his. Hunting is his life now. He’s chosen it. It’s how he helps the world. Gabriel can help the world, too, if he wakes up. The world needs him. Sam needs him. Even if it was more fun hanging out with “hookers in Monte Carlo.”

The big speech appears to have no effect. Defeated, Sam turns away toward the door. Behind him, Gabriel says, “Porn stars. They were porn stars, Sam.” And his eyes glow.

Unfortunately, Asmodeus is able to sense that on his throne.

Back in alt-SPNverse, Dean is unable to go on, even after being “cured,” and is forced to stop and rest. When Ketch presses him more about why Charlie is so important, Dean goes on and on and on about how Charlie was a special snowflake and he wasn’t able to save her. He then asks Ketch why he’s so interested. Ketch admits that he’s got a lot of people who died on his watch. Problem was, he didn’t even try to save them. Now he realizes that the “duty” he followed was hollow and he doesn’t know how to find redemption. Dean helpfully points out that this is because Ketch sucks.

Ketch sighs and gets up, then reaches out to help Dean up. He figures that maybe if he can help save alt-Charlie, he can redeem himself a tiny bit. Meanwhile, I’m wishing he and Dean would just leave well enough alone.

Meanwhile, Charlie is getting tortured by the most inept angels ever and being all defiant and stuff. Except, remember how angels can find out whatever they want from a human by “reading” their soul (per “The Third Man”)? Guess the Nep Duo forgot all about that.

Back at the Bunker (I know! It’s dizzying!), Sam and Castiel have given Gabriel the remaining vial of his grace because why the hell not? Not like Dean and Ketch won’t ever get stranded over in alt-SPNverse. It restores him a bit, but not completely.

Right on cue, Sam gets a call from Asmodeus, who demands Gabriel back. Sam says he’s hanging up, but doesn’t, allowing Asmodeus to rant and rave and give TFW a ten-minute warning. Well, alrighty-then. Gabriel, of course, looks terrified.

Up in Heaven, Lucifer is whining to Sister Jo about how nobody deserves his awesomeness, as he yanks off his coat and tie. When Sister Jo suggests he’s “giving up,” Lucifer says no, he’s going to find Jack and use his son to remake the world in his own image, where everyone worships him.

Sister Jo’s not buying it. She basically calls Lucifer a loser (which he is), saying he should “make good on your promises,” like “fixing Heaven” and giving the angels back their wings (hmm, isn’t there a certain archangel still in the Cage who could do that?).

Lucifer then lets the cat out of the bag – he can’t do any of that. Whether he isn’t powerful enough right now (his answer implies otherwise) or was never that powerful, he lied. Furious, Sister Jo berates him, saying he’s not even trying that hard to find his son because Jack will probably regard him with contempt, too. Unfortunately for her, she gets too close and Lucifer grabs her. Eyes glowing red, he nearly chokes the life out of her, but releases her at the last moment.

Backing away, Sister Jo rubs her throat and says, “And now you don’t have me.” Then she stalks out. Oooh, could feel that burn all the way down the multiverse.

Zooming back to alt-SPNverse, Dean and Ketch have found the angel camp, at a surprisingly intact old farmhouse with a silo, where, for who knows what reason, wood fires are burning (I don’t see why the angels would bother to let the prisoners burn fires to keep warm). A small band of prisoners is led out into the courtyard. Again, why would the angels keep prisoners?

Anyhoo, the head torturer angel goes off on a speech about how the Resistance is being broken, blah-blah-blah, and they bring out Charlie to be executed. Instead of the usual smiting, they tie her to a post and (I swear to God I am not joking), out comes a dude in goggles to behead her with a scimitar. ‘Cause let’s add a little dash of Islamophobia to this tonedeaf and rushed crap sandwich of an episode.

Sadly, Dean and Ketch figure out a plan and come in, guns blazing (after Dean tosses in a grenade) before this can happen. They shoot down most of the angels with their angel-killing bullets, except for the dastardly head torturer dude, who ducks into an outhouse and flies away (okay, it’s probably not an outhouse, but it looks like one).

Then Dean rescues Charlie, who appears to be the only human left alive besides him and Ketch. Nice rescue. Go team.

Back at the Bunker (weee! Everybody down a shot!), Gabriel is freaking out as Asmodeus is sending him bad-touch vibes, while Castiel watches him, concerned (remember when Castiel could do angel stuff? I miss that). Or something. Sam comes in and says he’s “warded” the rest of the Bunker, but is unsure it “will be enough.” Suddenly, the emergency lights and klaxons go on. Pretty sure it wasn’t enough, Sam.

[Sorry, needed a brief kitten break from this nonsense. These babies are three weeks old and freakin’ adorable. Been watching them on YouTube since they were born.]

Okay, back we go. Sam and Castiel go to investigate (which is dumb, leaving Gabriel alone), Castiel with an angel sword and Sam with a … machete? Really, Sam? Okay.

Anyhoo, the sigils Sam painted are glowing and fritzing. Then they start to go out one by one. Gotta say that’s a cool effect.

Sam and Castiel get attacked by demons with angel blades. Stabbing and smiting ensues, and they win the fight. But it’s a diversion for Asmodeus to come in and disarm/disable them, while two other demons drag out Gabriel. Asmodeus monologues a bit about how powerful he is, which is nonsense, of course. The archangel grace he shouldn’t be able to survive that’s in his body is what’s powerful, not him. Think Asmodeus is a tad high on his own methane.

But as the demons drag a struggling Gabriel up the stairs, and Asmodeus tortures Sam and Castiel with more monologuing and vaguely shown internal damage, Gabriel rallies. He tosses the demons over the stairs (apparently killing them, though that’s now how you kill demons), insta-cleans himself up, and shows his wings.

Asmodeus rather desperately tries to regain control of the situation by declaring “You’re too weak!” Gabriel responds with a cutting comment (that the entire fandom, plus Dean, has been thinking since Day One) about Asmodeus’ “dumbass suit,” then torches him from the inside.

And there was much rejoicing [yaaaayyyyy].

Unfortunately, after Sam and Castiel bring him up to speed and welcome him to TFW 2.0, Gabriel decides that’s not for him and bails on them (he still has wings, remember). Oops.

Meanwhile, in the alt-SPNverse, Dean is bringing alt-Charlie (who is every bit as obnoxious as “our” Charlie) up to speed on their side of the rift and how he wants to find Jack and his mother. The thing alt-Charlie actually balks at is the idea that Mary is his mother. Umm … odd thing to have issues with, but okay. Nevertheless, when they arrive at the rift, she becomes a believer. Well, that was quick.

But when Dean wants to take her through the rift, she and Ketch balk. Charlie wants to stay and fight for her world and Ketch does, too, because reasons. Dean hands Charlie a gun and goes back. Meanwhile, the evil torturer angel shows up with reinforcements (who walk into the fight because why use their wings, right?).

When Dean gets back, he has to explain why he’s alone. Then Sam and Castiel have to explain all that happened with Gabriel and how he bailed on them. Dean is … displeased.

Jensen Ackles has had to do this type of scene before, but it’s pretty cool (and unsettling) how he manages to wring some new subtext from Dean’s anger this time, and introduce some different body language. And how Sam and Castiel look like frightened lieutenants who have failed their leader rather than equal members of the team.

So, when Dean freaks out, it only seems initially like a repeat of, say, how he freaked out when Kevin died. Then he gets cold. Really cold. And when Castiel promises Dean they will find Gabriel, and Dean looks directly at the camera while saying, “We’d better,” I swear I saw ice crystals forming on the screen.


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29 thoughts on “The Official Supernatural: “Bring ’em Back Alive” (13.18) Live Recap Thread”

  1. I have been banned for 24 hours from Previously and have points,against me by Princess Sparkle because of Sparkle because of Snark.
    I just wondered. whether anyone studied the odyssey anymore. It was legitimate question.
    And all my posts are,erased.

    It is like every dumbass that cannot remember canon wandered over there .
    Well they will be beside themselves in anger when the show is so mean to Dean and I will be laughing because yeah… Tragic fall and all. Duh. Should have read the odyssey or something.

    And no car didn’t shut up because he realized Dean was right. He shut him And lookedchorrified because he knew Dean was making the biggest mistake of his life. And his fave at the end was t he best acting Misha has ever done imo. It should be all of our faces. Anyone saying he’ll yes missed the point. We should all be crying.
    It was not as easy to see as Sam’s,dark arc because with Dean it was wrapped up in more prettily. A little boy carrying his baby brother forever trying to save him over and over. A little boy losing his mommy desperate not to lose her again. Yes he pulled a gun on a girl. But the is a,far cry from drinking a possessed human dry for power or using your friends and risking their lives nearly getting your brother killed, Cas killed, actualky getting Charlie killed, using a spell from a black grimoire that required human sacrifice that pretty kuchbguaranteed bad cosmic consequences. Sorry. But givingnAU Micharl the Micharl sword equivalent. ForcDeanbit is rock bottom. He prioritized saving Sam over everything which is exactly what Sam did.
    Usually Dean hurts himsrlf and we have mostly become immune to the self sacrifice. At least most of us have. And I was expecting another self sacrifice with dire unforeseen consequences. Cage Michael.
    Not for him to rush into something he knew would go south.
    Still crying like Cas. Still mourning like Cas.
    Even as I know it will be the last time becaudevafter the darkness and the blood will come the pain of self awareness, atonement and growth.

    1. Was that in the BvJ thread? I got a beef there: somebody brought up one of Dean’s secrets (and I can’t remember which one) but what “I” want to know is if Sam ‘ever’ EVER told Dean about Nurse Cindy from Lucifer Rising. That is a time in which Sam in possession of himself COMMITTED MURDER. I know we aren’t supposed to talk about that (I got into a huge disagreement with somebody on a year or so ago because HE (his avatar had a male name) kept saying we did not see him kill her so it did not happen. THAT WAS HOW SAM GOT JUICED UP ENOUGH to kill Lilith.

      Now knowing Dean as we all do, Dean would NOT turn Sam over to the coppers (I still feel bad for her husband — I don’t think he ever knew what happened to her) because of the way Dean responded when he SAW VIDEO of Sam killing Steven Waddell (?): hide all the evidence right NOW, Sammy. Dean ‘would’ back Sam up, if they got caught, he’d confess dammit to get Sam off. (J MO)

      That is one LONG bitchy thread today, I have been reading it on and off for hours.

      Did Princess Sparkle also get deleted, because I don’t see any of her comments either? Or was it a different thread than Bitch v Jerk?

  2. Okay. I did speculate that Lucifer wanted Jack for his power and even foresaw the possibility of him stealing his grace. I did not really think much beyond that point however so I did not see a fifth act hail Mary maneuver for Lucifer to go mad Gonzo nuclear.
    Not did I forsee Samsel in distress again which was perhaps short sighted of me. Always consider Samsel in distress
    And I never never never Saw Dean making that deal. Not AU Michael. But Save Sammy does make Dean desperate and crazy. Still. No no no. Bad idea. So bad.
    They really rushed the ending and the production sucked.
    Funny that I was right about the broad strokes.
    Definitely dean!Michael . Nailed the heroic tragic fall/tragic flaw stuff. Big tragic fail making thst deal with AU Michael. Very bad judgement Dean.
    Nailed that Dean would kill lucifer. Good job Dean. No more Lucifer A+
    Nailed anger management issues for Jack.
    Allll of the mental health stuff tossed… I guess Dean just needed Mary and Jack home… his family around him. Dean needs his family. And it was great Dean just took charge again. Team Free Will rocked against the Werewolves. The opposite of the vampire cave clusterFCK.
    No crazy Michael yet… seems like he has to come out to play to fix heaven.
    Worried about what AU Michael has done to Dean.
    Is he like Donnie inside. Is he alive.
    Nice suit.

    1. I figured Lucifer wanted Jack’s power. Didn’t really see him becoming powerful enough to destroy the multiverse, but I guess he had to be powered back up to be a real threat. Otherwise, there’d be no reason for Dean to say yes (I was thinking–well, hoping–Dean to would say yes to crazy “our” Michael to stop alt-Michael, who didn’t much impress me as a villain, but was undoubtedly powerful).

      Y’all remember what I said they’d have to do to keep Jack around past this season, though, right? So, now Jack’s a regular.

      I think Dean took a major hit when Lucifer smote him because he was in the driver’s seat, so alt-Michael was able to take control while Dean was still weak (lots of rather juvenile, comic-book-ish plays on power-ups and power-downs the past two seasons, more than I’m into, personally, and I guess the attempted possession in “The Thing” was foreshadowing, after all). Dean will need time to recover. Or he may just say yes to “our” Michael should the latter get out of the Cage and invite him in, too. That could be pretty wild.

      Alt-Michael still appears to be weak, himself. Or, at least, he can’t take Dean over entirely. Otherwise, he’d have smote Sam and Jack before he left instead of simply running–sorry, flying–away. There was no reason for him to leave them alive. So, he’s got limitations over his control.

      I don’t think Dean’s decision was “bad” relative to the other decisions available to him. Dean always finds a way. It’s just generally messy because he never gets good, problem-free options. Also, I don’t think deciding to save Sam (*and* Jack, remember) was a decision made instead of saving the world. The two things aren’t mutually exclusive. People on the show who callously allow others to die, or don’t bother to save them, in order to “save the world” in some abstract way, are generally the selfish ones. Look at Naomi.

      Besides, Dean did save the world by killing Lucifer. Lucifer was going to torch the entire multiverse. Michael is cold and vicious and tyrannical, but he’s not entirely in charge of his “sword” and he may be the key to repowering Heaven. Which is something that desperately needs to happen. TFW works with what they’ve got, not what they wish they had.

      1. Yeah. I knew Jack would lose his powers. I figured either Luci would steal them or as Sam and cas would remove them.

        Dean going with AU Michael is on par with Sam using the BotD. Dean has never knowingly done made a choice that could cause harm to others… well except for pulling a gun on Kaia.
        So I am gutted. I am like that ladt shot of Cas.
        Dean!Michael!Michael! Would be awesome. I wondered about that myself. Whether the Michael sword in use would wake him up.

        This was Dean’s big tragic fall and they punctuated it by showing him fall beautifully and of course Cas face. When has Cas ever shown such emotion.

        On previously they are Dean the hero. Cas is crying because his friend went to battle and Cas backed off because Dean is right. And AU Michael is having a change of heart?!@ I thought he told Dean he planned to save humanity by killing them one by one.

        Cas knows Dean was wrong and Dean is lost. AU Michael is bad.. .

        Dean will fight but yeah he is knackered now.

        Glad Lucifer is dead.

        Dean made thst decision to Save Sam. It was the save Sammy impulse at work. Impulsively offering himsrlf to AU Michael was not the best.

        They could have restrained AU Michael using the cuffs in the Bunker. He was already weakened…

        And bled his grace out completely. One down…

        Then they could have discussed options. 

        There is the other Michael who maybe is a better option.   They could juice him up with double Michael grace and go after Lucifer and fix the lance while they arenat it. Use it to kill AU Michael and out the door to find Lucifer.  All Dean had to do was inject himself and talk to Billie. She needs the world to go round.  Or he could just summon het. No need to cook TexMex.

        The rush was because of Sam.

        Dean did not think at all because Sammy was at risk. He says it in text. Dean’s concern is Sam.  Dean is desperate because of Sam. Dean needs to go now because of Sam.

        The mirror for this is “Advanced Thanotology” Racing to inject the poison without thinking.  The definition of reckless.  He did not care about any other consequences. Just save Sam. End Lucifer forever for Sam. For Jack. For Family.

        It is his tragic flaw. He willingly sacrifices himself. This time he sacrificed the world. It breaks my heart. I am crying with Castiel. I keep seeing Dean falling in slow mo… broken.

        1. They didn’t have time. Jack and Lucifer’s confrontation forced Dean’s hand, and he was already suicidal. Saying yes to alt-Michael, with conditions, was a logical choice under the circumstances. He could kill Lucifer and then he could kill himself, taking alt-Michael with him. Well, he got Lucifer, at least.

          I’m thinking Lucifer is really dead (unless they do an Empty storyline, then all bets are off on living and dead angels and demons). They always said before he couldn’t be killed, so he’s never really died. And Chuck set up a rather neat redemption storyline by de-powering him and forcing him to deal with people that way. Then Lucifer flunked it bigtime. I think Chuck always knew Dean would kill Lucifer one day, and that Dean was the one person he was willing to put over Lucifer, but he tried to put it off as long as possible.

      2. I think he made the decision based on what was available and it was the only one that would at least take out the worst of the two bad guys. Even though AUMicheal is bad, Lucifer was worse. But also, remember the Dean Effect–he changes everyone — monster, god, human–he comes in contact with. They all may start out one way, but they end up Dean’s way. So who’s to say that AUMicheal won’t be the one changed here, that his redemption arc will follow Dean’s? AUMicheal is kind of the embodiment of Dean’s self-image, and so by changing/redeeming Micheal, he will change/redeem himself.

        1. I do not tbink that is what they are going for.
          It was not as cut and dry as fgor Sam but what we saw all season was Dean going “dark” via his tragic flaw…. loss of family zending him to that craxy place where he is sxo reckless he will d anything. Pulling the gun on kaia was a big sign. Previously he neve knowingly risked anyone but himself.
          Nope. They just had him fall big time.
          I am with Cas. Big crying face.
          I should have seen this but…. Dean goggles.
          I never Saw Dean saying yes to that monster.


          Talk with Jack about seeing the faces of the people who died because of you.

          Cas telling Dean NO.

          Cas in profile head tilted down liked a statue on mourning.

          Slow no close up of Dean falling.

          Cas crying.

          Dean Winchester Fell like Icarus.

      3. I literally was banned for 24 hours from Previously for saying Dean had a tragic fall and received points… ?! Because of Snark. I was reprimanded by my Princess Sparkle.
        I simply asked whether tbis stuff was still taught in school any more. Tragic hero journeys.
        What a weird site. No wonder it does not have a lot of posters.
        Well they got my posts removed so Dean is a big damn hero.

        Seriously though…. tbey totally are going to give him a Dean version of Sam’s season 11. It will be different because Dean’s issue is tied up in serious psychology around family and mental illness and loss of family and low self worth .. but it will not be pretty.

        1. “Princess Sparkle”? Kinda says it all, doesn’t it? You just reminded me why I don’t bother with Previously.TV.

          I’m wondering how they’re going to do this (especially from Dean’s POV), even if they only do it for a hot minute (which they might be stupid enough to do because Singer and his wife are still on board). I mean, will Dean wake up in some fantasy mental hospital in the season premiere? How is Michael intending to keep Dean under wraps when Dean had to be wounded for him to take control in the first place?

          1. Okay, y’all, I unexpectedly have a few extra hours tonight. Do you want me to “live recap” the season finale or what?

      4. Well something about the staging of the finale for me tbinking…. it was very stage like as in classical theater. So I looked up Aristotle’s Poetics and damned if they did not do theere best to stage a proper Greek tragedy in the finale with every bell and whistle per Aristotle. Everything.
        So Dean the tragic hero falls. They went full on tragedy bless their hearts.
        It will be explained in my review for WFB not that anyone cares.
        And the masks all season… homage to Greek tragedy totally..

        1. Actually, it’s your basic CW-superhero stunt-wirework stuff. You see it all the time on Supergirl, especially, because Supergirl flies all the time. But a lot of it is on Arrow, too, because he does all those acrobatic stunts. I heard they got a new stunt director in and I guess this is his style now. Kinda meh about it, to be honest.

          As for Greek tragedy, Dabb is not a Greek tragedy kind of guy. He’s a comic book guy and this was a pretty obvious homage to Dark Phoenix, right down to Dean not making a “mistake” (as Marisol noted, Dean didn’t have any other choices besides saying yes to Michael and sitting on his thumbs), but actually being forced to make a decision that would save the most lives (like Jean Grey when she says yes for the first time to the Phoenix Force), a decision he has long been fated to make (again, like Jean Grey).

          This was an obvious one, albeit very painful (and ironic in that Dean finally freed Sam of Lucifer for good, but at the cost of his own apparently permanent enslavement to an archangel). Michael is cold and calculating and will take his time making up some EVOL plan. Lucifer was going to burn the entire multiverse right then, and he was going to start with Jack and Sam. It was, as the kids say, a no-brainer.

          1. They literally used every single thing Aristotle recommends and almost everything knoen about staging a greek play… Like a cart with wheels for showing the dead which Lucifer says out loud.!!!
            They went full out Greek tragedy.
            Guaranteed. They hit everything.
            And a Greek tragedy always ends with the Mask of tragedy which is ,exactly what cas’ face was.
            Brilliant really. Audacious.
            I am sure they will mention it on the dvd. It must jill rhem to do all itbis work and then fans ask those dum questions and say there is no planning.
            All of the tdpsgion from before… as I said it was deliberate… Mimesis… important characteristic for a Greek tragedy to set the scene. It is how we as the audience understands Dean has done it before and will do it again… set up over two seasons .
            Everything from the last two seasons was set up like a Greek tragedy.
            Dabb has studied it. A lot of comic book guys have because many of those heroes early on were built based on the same literary groundwork and everyone who is a certain age studied classical heroes to some extent. English , classics, drama and film majors .more than others .

            I know I am right. Hiits every Mark. They filmed it liked a classiccal motion.
            It is based on the same analysis that lead me to conclude Dean!Michael last season.

            1. I am well aware of what constitutes Greek tragedy. I do have a degree in Classics. I am also well aware of the influences on these writers and they have not been reading Greek tragedy. They have been reading and writing comic books. Big difference. Listen to Dabb, Singer, and the Nepotism Duo interview sometime. Not an ounce of Classical learning between them. Everything they’ve got, they’ve got from comics and Hollywood.

              Dean is not the one with the tragic flaw here. Dean was the one who was up against it with an unwinnable situation. Lucifer and Michael are the ones who fell victim to hubris. Lucifer was destroyed by his tragic flaw. Michael thinks he’s won, but has actually put himself inside the person who will probably end up destroying him. So, that’s his tragic flaw–thinking that he’s “tricked” or manipulated Dean into a no-win situation and then breaking his deal with his would-be vessel. The more powerful a being, the worse the consequences when that being breaks a deal. Just look at what happened with Sam and Gadriel.

        2. Whether this was an intentional homage to Greek tragedy or not, I’m intrigued by the idea. I don’t see any reason the fall couldn’t have represented falls for both Michael and Dean. They are joined in their fates after all. It is just that they may represent two different kinds of falls.

          Michael’s fall is that of an angel. That is, he has ceased to obey God. Originally, the apocalypse was supposed to happen. In a world without Dean and Sam, that proceeded apace. But now, AU Michael has invaded a universe which is not his own, and in which Dean has been allowed to rewrite the future. In trying to take control and force purity, Michael is going against Dean’s own ethic, which values individual people above any form of purity. As God (Chuck) has endorsed Dean’s rewrite, to go against this, places Michael in disobedience to God. Hence Michael’s fall.

          Now if Dean’s fall is that of a tragic hero, and the tragic flaw for most Greek heroes was hubris (presumption, overconfidence, pride) this seems about as far from Dean’s psyche as possible, with his lack of self esteem. He’s not proud. But at this point, Dean has at least some awareness of his importance to the universe thanks to Billie. He is also now held responsible for the universe, probably as a result of his changing the ending of the story. But rewriting a story originally ordained by God is presumption, no? Of course you could say that God ordained that too . . .

          On the other hand, if his flaw is excessive devotion to family, is he is now truly willing to give up the world to save them? Maybe, but the need to save Sam and Jack from Lucifer was compatible with saving the world, as Lucifer was threatening all concerned. So taking on Michael may have seemed reasonable.

          The problem, I think, is that Dean knows intellectually of his importance to the universe but emotionally he still sees himself as expendable. He also has a great deal of confidence in his own abilities, probably going all the way back to his days of parentalization, when he had no one but himself to rely on. He always manages to survive to fight another day. So he reasons that he will be able to expel Michael when finished, but fails to concern himself with the potential risks to himself if he cannot. After all, he’s never given much thought to his own needs. At any rate, he seemed genuinely shocked when Michael reneged, and he was unable to throw Michael off.

          So if Dean has a fatal flaw, I think it’s overconfidence in his abilities combined with failing to value himself enough to consider the consequences to himself. Until it’s too late. So yes, he did fall. And Castiel wept.

          1. I was looking at Tragic Heroes and one of the things that leaps out at me is that they are really Villains who start out Good and have a great fall. Also, their hubris makes them impious. This doesn’t mean that everyone who dies in a Tragedy is a Tragic Hero. Some of them are innocent victims of the TH.

      5. Stolen grace is like an energy drink. I assume AU Michael embellished to get his hands on Dean.
        Dean cared about saving sam. Yeah he eabted Lucifer dead in a primal way but thst wss about saving Sam too.

      6. The Thing was obvious foreshadowing which surprisingly most folks missed…. ???
        Definitely Dean Michael Michael sandwich. No way Michael is not away his Unworn suit was stolen. And AU Michael killed his maybe he wanted Lucifer dead too but it was his job to do and he did not want his little brother dead. So yes. Scores to settle.
        Annoyed Lucifer will regenerate. I was worried about the sparkly stiff on the wings.
        So Javmck is powered down. That was obvious but it is temporary for now… He literally can solve every problem but resurrection. They will have to use thst spell to take his grace to permanently keep him. He is a good addition.
        Dean’s decision was bad because the only thing he thought about was saving Sam and Lucifer. He did not have all of the facts beca use he did not listen to Cad at all and he allowed himself to be seduced by AU Michael because he was spinning it to get his pretty powerful new suit.
        And the entire tbing was set up as a Greek tragedy with Dean as the Greek tragic hero.
        So yeah. Still pretty much heart broken over here..

      7. Calvert seems to have the same gift Ackles does: when they need to they can appear ‘small’ and I like that.

        We see Jack in regards to other characters, but when he is with Sam and Dean and Castiel he actually LOOKS like a little kid.

        Good acting.

  3. I just got ticked when Gabriel ‘bounced’ immediately. So typical.

    I also got ticked that so many people on line thought Dean was a meanie for yelling when he found out that Gabriel had bounced.

  4. I loved Dean and,Ketch.
    I thought Dean was noticeably off on tbis episode. Not as bad as in the Sam dies what he )ives! Episode bug ztarting to realky go off the reservation.

    Compare to Dean/Ketch hunting last year. Dean was cool and stable . Ketch was off.

    This time Ketch is cool as a cucumber. Dean… off his meds manic…

    Yeah…. I hate the Asmodeus grace storyline wirh a passion so. Lalalalala
    On the one hans… Gabriel deserves all of his grace back. It is his.
    But yeah… dean….

    They named dropped Michael in the exorcism.

        1. The Archangel Michael is a standard call-upon because he traditionally killed/expelled the Dragon (the Devil) from Heaven in Revelation and is believed to have special powers over demons:

          Remember that Michael in Judaism and Christianity is an extremely powerful angel who is really in a class all by himself, very close to Christ and God (if not equal/equivalent in some belief systems).

          1. Just never heard him used in horror movies and never attended an actual exorcism. I did realize he was a powerful archangel, art history major undergrad and grad, and also conflated with the Messiah in christanity and Judaism. Hr has a candle in mosr groceries too!
            I tbink think the show used him deliberately in this instance of course.
            Thanks for the link.

            1. Maybe, considering the current rumors. But they’ve been randomly using that Flemish Renaissance Michael painting as a backdrop for years and it never turned out to be even a red herring.

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