Supernatural: Why the British Men of Letters Just Don’t Work

By Paula R. Stiles

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This season of Supernatural has been like a slow trainwreck, with the tired old retread of Lucifer and his “baby mama drama” plot that both repeats last season’s much-better Amara storyline and retcons Lucifer’s redemption in it (plus, we’re now supposed to believe he’s the eldest because that’s not a total retcon of season five, or anything).

But we’ve also been subjected to one of the worst storylines of the entire show, a storyline that didn’t have to be bad, could even have been good, but was just plain awful. This storyline has done more to bring up old fault lines and prejudices that the current showrunners and head writers have previously demonstrated than anything since Sam had no soul.

In theory, the British Men of Letters (I call them the “LoL”) are a great idea. They’re a human group that could be either an ally or an enemy. They are affiliated with the Brothers by blood (according to Grandpa Winchester) and they are related to the Brothers’ current home, which Sam and Dean inherited through their heritage as Legacies. And they could have connections (as we have found) to preexisting recurring characters, King of Hell Crowley and his Scottish witch mother Rowena. Plus, they have sparkly toys.

Unfortunately, a good idea does not automatically equal great execution if the writing isn’t there – and this year, the writing just isn’t there. This storyline is a good example of flaws in the writing from all season long.

Supernatural --"First Blood"-- SN1209b_0077.jpg -- Pictured (L-R): Adam Fergus as Mick Davies and David Haydn-Jones as Mr. Ketch -- Photo: Dean Buscher/The CW -- © 2016 The CW Network, LLC. All Rights Reserved

Stereotypes Galore

So, how hideous are the jingoistic stereotypes in this storyline? Toni Bevell is a walking Posh Twat, an upperclass snob who looks down her nose at the Winchesters, criticizes their approach to hunting, and claims ownership over the entire United States (though, curiously, not Canada). Meanwhile, she engages in torture of people who haven’t done anything to her personally without an ounce of irony. Her (late) henchwoman, Ms Watt, is a butch stereotype straight out of the Amazon episode we all wish the show had never done. Mick Davies appears to have been inspired by the movie version of Oliver Twist (and, despite being identified as English, has an Irish nickname and is played by an Irish actor). Ketch seems to come from watching too much The Avengers. And Doctor Hess has already been compared to Dolores Umbridge from Harry Potter. Unfavorably.

In light of the fact that all of these characters are stereotypes completely divorced from the writers’ actually knowing anybody from the UK (or anything first-hand about the British Isles), and that none of the actors is actually English (all the principles are Canadian or Irish), it’s not really a surprise that the LOL characters all sport some of the fakiest Received Pronunciation accents outside of BBC Radio and that there is no visible understanding among the writers that “British” and “English” are not interchangeable terms. This, predictably, has led to much mockery from across the Pond from the very beginning of this season.

Supernatural --"There's Something About Mary" -- SN1221a_0378.jpg -- Pictured (L-R): Samantha Smith as Mary Winchester and David Haydn-Jones as Mr. Ketch -- Photo: Jack Rowand/The CW -- © 2017 The CW Network, LLC. All Rights Reserved

What’s my motivation?!

I haven’t seen this much chaos over character motivation since the botched job that was Soulless Sam in season six. At the end of last season, we were introduced briefly to Toni Bevell’s cute little moppet (about whom I did not care) before she showed up at the Bunker and shot Sam in a cliffhanger that made no fan anxious about Sam’s fate (we all knew he would live).

Jump to this season and you’d think Toni would be all about reclaiming the Bunker for the use of her people, but nope. She and Ms Watt relocated to some farmhouse with a spacious cellar to torture Sam, leaving the Bunker completely open and unprotected for Dean and Castiel to return and reoccupy. Never mind that we just found out last week that the LoL could have changed the locks at any time.

So, strike one on motivation making any sense.

Now, mind you, the world nearly ended last season and it was pretty obvious that was going on. In fact, it looked an awful lot as though Toni’s trip to the U.S. was motivated by this global calamity. But noooo. Toni is far more interested in asking Sam questions about how the “network” of American Hunters works, even as she claims to know everything about him.

Okay, so, if she already knows everything about him, why isn’t she asking pertinent questions about things she doesn’t know about, like why the sun almost went out? Why ask questions about stuff she should already know? Is this an epic botch of As You Know, Sam or a straight-up plothole?

So, strike two and boy, these LoL are starting to look dumb.

At some point, you would think the show might have addressed the elephant in the room: If the LoL are so knowledgeable and powerful, where the hell have they been through all the apocalypses of the past decade? Where do they get off judging the Brothers when they have apparently sat out the near-Heat Death of the entire universe? Guess what? The show doesn’t even take a swing at that ball. It just pretends the issue isn’t there.

Then we get to Mick Davies and his character arc about two-thirds of the way through. We find out that he was plucked off the streets (because apparently, the writers are under the impression that Victorian England is still a thing and street urchins still pick pockets) and sent to Kendricks Academy. There, he is subjected to a test where he is forced to kill his best friend. It is strongly implied that this is a rite of passage that every single one of the LoL goes through during school.

[screeeeeeeeeeeeech!] Say, what, now?!

Let’s parse this out. First, according to Toni Bevell, creepy Arthur Ketch is supposed to be the scariest of the LoL and uniquely psychopathic, which is why Mick called him in, in the first place. If all of the LoL are “blooded” by killing their best friends, how does that make Ketch unique in any way? I mean, think about that.

And if every LoL member goes through this rite of passage, why do the LoL staffers who are killed by the Alpha Vampire come across as so … soft? None of them acts like a person who has killed before. They’re just techie redshirts. In fact, Mick himself struggles with killing even a newly turned werewolf girl. Where is the inevitable moral hardening that would come from such a rite of passage? The only character who shows it is Ketch and maybe Ms Watt. Even Toni and Doctor Hess don’t come off as particularly good at killing.

Second, the one introductory scene we have of Toni indicates she is emotionally attached to her child, albeit via a nanny. Nary a hint that she may lose him someday. Hardly a set-up for this later “twist” that her child will eventually be forced to kill or be killed.

We also find out right away that she is upperclass nobility (by way of Downtown Abbey, no doubt). Mick and (it is strongly hinted) Ketch are orphans. It sorta, kinda makes sense that they could be subjected to tests where they have to kill each other as kids and not be missed by British child services (yes, Britain has them). Even if the idea of half of the recruits being forced to murder the other half makes no sense from a corporate investment point of view.

But what about Toni Bevell? She’s a titled lady. Her child is nobility. Are we honestly to believe that the English upper class would be okay with sending their children to a school where half of them will inevitably be murdered by the other half? I get that public schools in Britain are rough with the bullying, but come on. And how do they cover that up, exactly? These are not children no one will miss.

Also, it’s a tiny bit difficult to claim that your corporate mantra is protecting innocent humans from monsters when your organization kills more children than any monster in your territory and has a deal with the King of Hell not to interfere in demon deals. How, exactly, are you protecting humans, again?

Strike three.

Now that we’re back in the dugout, let’s address the LoL’s alleged motivation for coming to the U.S. Let’s point out very quickly that the idea that a small foreign group like the LoL, who have never been any kind of major players in previous apocalyptic events, could take over a huge territory like the United States with a population almost six times that of the UK, is ludicrous. So, the idea that this is even a realistic goal, let alone one they consider their right, is hilarious in all the wrong ways. Dabb, Singer, Buckner, and Ross-Leming, folks, please – the War of 1812 was a long time ago. Move on.

Anyhoo, the LoL blame the Winchesters for lots of crazy things having gone on the past few years, while they themselves have kept Britain locked down nice and tight. You know, aside from that Banshee in Ireland, Bela’s demon deal, the angels falling, and so on. A few of these things have been addressed (like Crowley having made a deal with Doctor Hess to stay out of Britain, which smelled a lot like a belated retcon to cover up a plothole pointed out by fans and roundly mocked). But for the most part, the LoL come off like unimpressive blowhards.

Even if that elephant about their absence at all the recent apocalypses didn’t keep coming back to haunt the writers, a few toys and riling up the Alpha Vampire haven’t exactly made the LoL look like the big threat the writers obviously wanted them to be. And that’s not even getting into the fact that there’s no reason for Hell to make a deal with the LoL in Britain because there’s no indication the LoL are any threat to Hell in the first place. I mean, what’s in it for Hell?

This also blows all of their precious pearl-clutching over all the black magic and shenanigans the Brothers have engaged in over the years right out of the water. If you’ve got a deal with the King of Hell himself, your entire organization is basically hellbound. One could argue that if it were just a case of Mick having second thoughts about bringing in Ketch and Doctor Hess pulling the strings, the hypocrisy might at least make a sort of cliched sense – the rank and file knoweth not what corruption the upper echelons are getting into (as hinted early on).

But bring in Toni and her snobbery about a moral high ground that doesn’t exist (the best part was her calling Ketch a “psychopath,” which was a classic case of Pot taking a meeting with Kettle) and it all falls apart. Toni and Ketch know perfectly well what’s going on and what’s their reaction? They’re competing over which one literally cuts the throat of the other to move up the ladder. There’s hypocrisy and then there’s “Why would you even believe that?” You end up with far too many mental and moral contortions.

Oh, but we’re not quite done with the tangled mess the show has made of the LoL’s motivations. On top of all that, Mary got brainwashed in the last episode. Now let me get this straight – the LoL have the capability of brainwashing even the most resistant subject, but we’re to believe they decided to go with the much more time-consuming and labor-intensive (and vulnerable to being exposed) method of raising kids in a negative kind of Hogwart’s and forcing them to kill each other, instead? And if they do have access to this brainwashing, why did Mick even have any doubts or second thoughts? Hell, why even bother to kill off the other Hunters when you can just capture them and do your own Telefon program on them?

It’s as if Dabb & Co. took every motivation for every major group antagonist on the show (i.e., brainwashing for angels, “blooding” for the Stynes), at least every recent group, and threw it at the wall to see what stuck for the LoL. And what we ended up with was a big, bloody, unsatisfying Rorschach inkblot.


Gender stuff

I’m not one of those fans who go to extremes on the show’s approach to gender issues. I think Supernatural actually has made a concerted effort for years to bring in more female and PoC, and especially GLBT, characters (with mixed success). Is it the best at this? No. Is it the worst? Not even close.

But it does have its ups and downs, and some writers are better than others (unfortunately, this season is being run by some of the worst). I didn’t think Charlie’s character was one of its finer moments. Though her Checklist Sue character was beloved in some quarters of fandom, her appearances really began to tank in the ratings after “PacMan Fever.” Whether or not that had to do with her being a lesbian character written by a straight male and played by a straight woman as a tonedeaf Manic Pixie Dream Girl who spent all her time hanging out with two guys, I don’t know, but the ratings alone were a good enough reason to write her out. It’s a little hard to take seriously the wailing and gnashing of teeth on Tumblr about how she was a fan favorite who got fridged by the mean old TPTB when a significant portion of the audience that happily watched the episodes before and after her last episode didn’t bother to show up for her swan song, resulting in the lowest audience for an episode up to that time.

This wasn’t the case with Eileen, who was summarily killed off in the teaser of last week’s episode (Rowena also looks not long for this world). And there’s something really unpleasant going on this season with the LoL female characters versus other female characters. The LoL women, per above, were/are hugely unpleasant stereotypes, yet we’re still stuck with the two worst of them.

At the same time, they are partly responsible for the woobie-death of at least one well-liked female character (Eileen). This was on top of an MOTW episode the week before in which two female characters (one of them recurring) were fridged so that their Anakin Skywalker-like “talented” male relative could be turned to the Dark Side. On top of all that crap, those three were a family of PoCs.

I’ve often referred to Toni as a “Twat” (a popular expletive in the UK) in the past and that has not been accidental. The writers have acted precious about any bad fan reaction to Toni and Doctor Hess (and the unfortunate yoking of Mary’s already-struggling storyline to the LoL), as though this is an indication of fan sexism against women. God forbid we call a character how she’s (intentionally) being written.

And then the show turned around and had Ketch refer to Toni last week as “a bitch.” In an episode co-written by a woman. Hypocrisy, much?

The show has done this emotional bait-and-switch before and it’s not the first show to do it, either. But it was especially egregious this season, likely because Eileen was popular along the lines of Ellen and Jo (yet didn’t get anything as good as their send-off). But Toni is no Meg. Or Abaddon. So, it’s not working. People don’t want to savor Toni’s villainy. They just want her gone.

It didn’t help that the show tried to do “meet cute” in the middle of Sam’s torture earlier this season, having a “sexy” scene of Toni effectively mind-raping Sam by having him hallucinate being in bed with her. Women using magic to mind-rape men has an ugly history in recent genre shows, such as when Adalind in the show Grimm mind-raped three different male characters three different times and had two babies out of it, but ended up with the third victim (whom she had spent the first four seasons tormenting) in a One True Ship the last season and a half because of Baby Brain. I’m not kidding.

See? This show could still be so much worse.

Grimm and Once Upon a Time have both promoted the idea that having a baby can turn an Evil female character Good for basically no reason save hormones and Motherly Love, while other evil or morally gray characters are “punished” by infertility. If members of the latter group do redeem themselves, they have to do it the slow way via actual redemptive acts and character development. Hence, Toni’s moppet takes on a sinister connotation (and notice how there’s nary a hint that nasty, shriveled up old maid Doctor Hess could be redeemed). Fortunately, the writers seem to have had just enough motherwit (so far) to realize that didn’t fly with the fans and have kept her from meeting cute anymore with Sam.

To make matters worse, the writers are being totally hypocritical about their sexism. They write the Brothers as weak rather than trying to make Toni strong. Otherwise, she’d be no threat whatsoever. Mick, Ketch, and Hess are no great shakes as antagonists, either (though I’ll give extra points to the actors playing Mick and Ketch, both for actively connecting with the fandom and enthusiastically selling what thin gruel they got onscreen). But at least they aren’t dressed up in tight clothes and kitten heels, let alone played by an actress who shows no appreciable stage-fighting talent.


I suppose we’ll never know if Elizabeth Blackmore could have been good in the role when the writing and costuming never gave her a chance. Toni Bevell is Bela Talbot all over again including every mistake made with the character (albeit Lauren Cohan had a lot of charisma in the role that justified her being poached by The Walking Dead later on). It’s as if they never learned a thing from either Bela or Ruby’s reception by the fandom.

I know a lot of people have had issues with Mary’s arc this season (some of them legit). But at least she dresses and acts like someone who can kill monsters and is good at it. And Samantha Smith brings a grim gravitas to the role. There’s none of that in Toni and she desperately needed that kind of legitimacy to make sense as a character.

We even got her kneeing Dean in the groin last week (signalling that she’s a badass dealing with his sexism). But 1. Dean is the one lead character who already has to field all the writers’ most sexist ideas about gender as if he were a female lead and 2. Dean wasn’t being sexist in that scene. So, that subtext wasn’t justified.

In fact, I can think of a lot of fans who would love to watch him beat Toni’s face to a bloody pulp (not just that one punch near the beginning of the season) and then shoot her. She has, after all, tortured his brother, brainwashed his mother, captured and tortured him, and aided in the murder of at least one good friend. And that’s all on top of her group’s ludicrous and arrogant attempted invasion of his native land, while bragging about how they’ll run things so much better in their fascist way. A male character like that would have been dead by the end of the second episode this season.

The only reason Dean hasn’t yet rearranged her face is that the writers won’t let him: “The male Hero musn’t hit a girl.” Which is ridiculous. Dean is a much darker character than that and his uncharacteristic reticence just makes her look weak (along with frustrating the fans who don’t like her).

It looks as though the show is going to pull a Stynes-style massacre on the LoL this week, probably courtesy of Lucifer. I sure hope so, though I’d prefer the Winchesters get the primary kills. On the one hand, I mourn the loss of what could have been a good storyline (especially Mick and Ketch). On the other hand, I am so sick of these losers that I just want them given their send-off to Hell, never to be mentioned again.

Maybe Lucifer, Kelly, and their hate child can join them in show obscurity.


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27 thoughts on “Supernatural: Why the British Men of Letters Just Don’t Work”

  1. The one thing I liked about this season was that there were a lot of cool episodes in how they were filmed or directed. But its a bit like putting a top hat on a turd. Looks a bit better, cool idea, but would’ve been a lot better on an actual person.
    My biggest problem with the BMoL is their impatience. You think American Hunters are doing a poor job and want to fix things up there so people like the Winchesters stop nearly ending the world? I’m on board. You don’t spend a year torturing, manipulating, and brainwashing a handful of people and then trying to kill them all when they’re not on your side. You infiltrate, engratiate, and then replace. Set up a Kendricks, or a few. Learn how Hunters operate and join their groups. Set up a headquarters and share tools and tips and act like a dispatch like in their own country with the wards/alarms. Invest in building a presence there and swaying existing Hunters while training new ones. Slowly phase in your mental-torture crap so no one calls you out on it immediately. THEN kill off the Winchesters if you need to so they won’t get in your way. They didn’t have to be a villain, and they wouldn’t have been seen as such until years/decades later if they’d just planned things properly.

    1. LOL! at “top hat on a turd.” Yeah, pretty much. It was a sad day when I realized that while the Dabb Era writers were capable of coming up with some decent ideas, they were mostly incapable of doing anything worthwhile with those ideas. The British Men of Letters were one of those ideas. It’s actually a good idea, but what the hell with the terrible execution? As you said, their approach made no sense and what was their actual problem with Sam and Dean, anyway? Sam and Dean had a great track record in stopping apocalypses. Why not just let them get on with it? Why antagonize them so needlessly?

  2. These British characters killing everyone also completely misses the point that our police force is one of 4 in the world that aren’t armed, and we look on in horror at the gun crime in the US! It’s unlikely a British organisation would be that trigger happy!

    1. I’m pretty confident no one involved in creating that storyline has ever been to Britain or bothered to consult with any of their recurring cast who were British.

  3. Why is it that you haven’t said anything about the blatant xenophobia portrayed by the Brits in this show? Is that what you mean by stereotype? Because I got confused between the complaining about the accents being bad and everything. I’m honestly curious if that’s how Brits think Americans are like. Or is that just a bigot kind of view? Idk I’d like to be informed about it.

    1. Pretty sure I did when I was talking about how they looked down their noses at the Brothers and were trying to take over the entire country.

  4. I lived in England for a while as a child so I am familiar with the British accent, and I was appalled at how bad the British men of letters accents were. Especially Ketch. The whole way that the Brits behaved was a terrible stereotype which isn’t even true. They were supposed to sound posh but didn’t sound like what actual posh brits sound like. The whole thing grated on my nerves. Why for the love of God couldn’t they just hire British actors of which there is NO shortage.

    1. I’m still not entirely sure what was going on with the casting. As you say, there are plenty of British actors in Hollywood and even more in Hollywood North. And while I’m sure they wouldn’t have been overly thrilled about playing stereotypes like that, a job’s still a job and someone would have taken it.

      I dunno. Season 13 was definitely better, but I feel as though they wasted an awful lot of time in it fixing canon stuff that they needlessly broke in season 12.

  5. Hi, really sorry for the slow reply. I’ve been away with work and dealing with some personal stuff.

    LOL, yes, I totally agree, those guys were total dicks!

    I stopped myself putting all my Supernatural blu rays on E-bay, but they are off the shelf and in a box out of sight until I decide whether I want to look at them again. I will wait until the next season to see where the show goes and if it will redeem itself.

    I haven’t changed my mind about how disappointed I feel, but I’m hoping they’ve had some fan reactions that will make them realise how offensive and upsetting the choice of story line and characters was. I don’t even know any British people that speak with those dreadful fake accents the characters had. Do they think we’re all like Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins? LOL

    I’ll give the next season a go with some trepidation.

    I actually tweeted the show a few times, but got no answer! I’ll let you know if the respond.

  6. This is such a refreshing and honest observation about season 12 of Supernatural and the BMoL story arc, among many other gushing blogs and posts that seem to have missed the glaring and almost racist tone this season of the show has displayed. Thank you for posting it.

    Before continuing may I add that I live in England, actually near the original town of Winchester, which has always been a bit of a buzz, seeing as I have been such a huge and dedicated fan of the show since it began. In fact I will go as far as saying that I love the show so much, it’s probably one of my all time favourite shows (apart from the X Files 🙂 I’ve invested many hours of my life watching it. I feel connected to the characters and the lore and has always looked forward to new seasons with a real sense of anticipation.

    So, imagine my dismay as the BMoL storyline began to unfold. I hoped as each episode aired that the British characters would redeem themselves and their agenda would become clear as one of friendship and allied brotherhood with the US hunters, as you would expect in real life, but no, it just got worse as the season evolved.

    I can’t understand for the life of me, why the writers and show runners made us in to the “big bad’ of the season, even worse than Lucifer and his baby! What where they thinking? They painted the Brits as a bunch of arrogant, cold blooded, murdering psychopaths and some kind of fantasy version of colonial overlords. The accents were horrendous and embarrassing and Dean’s constants references to British Dicks and Tea Swilling Psychos was kinda unpleasant to keep hearing.

    You couldn’t have described it better when you called it a slow train wreck.

    Unfortunately this season has tainted the show so much for me, and upset me so much, that I can’t believe after 12 seasons I think I will be parting ways with Supernatural. I know some people will say “it’s only a TV show” or “get a life” but Supernatural has been a big a part of my life for these part years, which make it even harder to walk away from it. How can I ever watch past seasons knowing where it will culminate in season 12? I’ve almost instantly lost my love for the show and characters and don’t care what happens to them next and that really saddens me because I have loved them all and shared this journey with them. However for me the journey ends here. Goodbye Supernatural and carry on my wayward son.

    From a tea swilling psycho British dick!!!

      1. It’s okay. I know.

        I’m sticking with it, at least for now, but I don’t blame you a bit. I lived in St Andrews for six years and when Toni first appeared on the screen, I thought, “Oh, no. Don’t they realize they have a ton of British fans? This will *so* not go down well across the Pond.”

        Somewhat in Dean’s defense, in-story, the British LoL characters he and Sam encountered *were* dicks. But that’s hardly a good defense for the writers.

  7. It is sad how little they have done this season. The idea of having a fully human antagonist had so many interesting possibilities. (I rather hoped for an episode facing the one monster they were really not prepared to fight – bureaucracy.) Early on, there were a number of episodes, however imperfect, that I enjoyed. But the story logic got more and more inconsistent until it crossed the line by introducing Kendricks.

    The idea of motherhood saving and sanctifying and infertility as punishment is frighteningly similar to indoctrination I witnessed in situations in which I found myself in the past. In truth, I never watched much TV until I got well and truly addicted to Supernatural, and coming face to face with this thinking again is rather like running headlong into the monster you thought you’d escaped in a nightmare.

    The idea of Dean and Sam being off their game because of their age is ludicrous. In their thirties, they would be approaching their peak. This too is inconsistent within the larger show. Bobby and Rufus and John were older than them, but never shown to be losing their edge due to their age. Any problems they had were caused by aspects of their personalities.

    1. The whole magical motherhood thing gets on my nerves. SPN fortunately hasn’t taken more than a brief stab at it (and even subverted the trope with Mary), but it downright infested Grimm and OUAT. And OUAT should have known better, considering the number of horrible mothers who created Woobie!EVOL sons in that story.

      John was at the very height of his career as a Hunter when he died and he was about fifty then. Ugh about the ageism.

  8. Well said. I definitely got perverted Mr. Steed vibes about Letch too.
    So much bad writing this season.

  9. Great analysis of the LOL fiasco. The show’s definitely had its share of problematic storylines before. Still, no matter how ridiculous the overall premise, at least ‘some’ aspect of those storylines made sense. I mean, Soulless Sam was a hot mess. Even so, Cas’ guilt, Crowley’s opportunism, and Dean’s determination to save Sam were at least in line with their characters.

    The LOL storyline, though, is just one big logic fail through and through. As you say, the characters are one-dimensional stereotypes. Their motivations make no sense. Their actions make no sense. The underlying story makes no sense. It’s all very cliched and just downright BAD. It’s no wonder the Js have talked so little about this season- I’d like to pretend it never happened too, lol.

    (I do wonder if Dabb was forced to end this storyline sooner than he’d expected. It had seemed like Lady Toni and her Tiny Tyke were meant to figure more heavily into the season. And apparently, there were plans for an episode showing Ketch’s childhood and indoctrination into the LoL. )

  10. This is an excellent long read.

    I wonder where you got the idea that Lucifer is going to rub out the BMoL (that is ‘my’ acronym for them). The previews I saw (or was it BTS photos, not video? I am confused this morning) had a task force of hunters (including Jodi YAH — do you think Claire and Alex are on the run while all this is going on?) over at the BMoL HQ (is it in Minnesota?) breaking in.

    I differ from you on Elizabeth Blackmore because I truly DO hate her SO much I am not bored and look forward to Sam and/or Dean killing her/beating her up. I don’t want her to survive the season SO much.

    I also wonder if the Upper Classes at Kendricks don’t participate in the Hunger Games aspect. Maybe it is the kids who don’t have ‘family pedigree’ who have to participate? Anyway I hated Dr Hess as Layla’s mama and I hate her still. The actress has an ability to portray no sympathy for anybody and that is rare imo.

    You are right, Ms Watts was a Butch Lesbian stereotype if I ever saw one. Also, I thought the Angel Brass Knuckles worked on Dean in Episode 2, he was surprised he was thrown around. NOW they say the Brass Knuckles only work on ANGELS? Am I wrong to say they gobsmacked Dean?

    I liked Eileen. I thought her death was horrific. I would’ve preferred her being ‘around’ to come back if the actress’ OWN show was canceled.

    Unlike others, I do not want Our Boys to lose the LoL just because these are now guys in their 30s, I want them to have ‘something’ in their life.

    Also John overthrew AZAZEL possession. I was surprised that Mary actually broke so easily. No ‘real’ relationship with Sam and Dean?

    I ‘do’ wonder to whom Castiel is saying YOU! at the end of the preview video. I am looking forward to Thursday in the hopes that all of this ties up.

    As always, very grateful for your insights.

    1. Eva, in the conversation between Crowley and Doctor Hess (the one I call “Headbitchstress” in my live recaps), they both express reservations about Lucifer getting out and about his Hellspawn. This is the first time we get any real sense that LoL are at all up to speed on the Lucifer situation. They’ve always seemed far behind the Eight Ball before. The implication is that one fairly high priority for him would be Lucifer taking 30 seconds to go rub out the LoL.

      The angel brass knuckles stuff was dumb. If it works only on superhumans, just admit Dean’s still superhuman and be done with it. It’s not as though that aspect of Dean was ever unpopular.

      I wouldn’t mind in the least if they had a *fun* butch character, but Ms Watt was just insulting.

      Toni Bevell irritates me in large part because I don’t think these writers have the brass to kill her off in a way that would satisfy the audience. And I bet they’re going to justify that fail by claiming they don’t want to be sexist, while being sexist as hell about the whole thing.

      Mary’s brainwashing is just clumsy set-up for her to have a heart-to-heart in her head with her eldest son. I really don’t think there’s any more logic to it.

      The very idea the show keeps bringing up that the Brothers are at all off their game for being over 30 is, frankly, disgusting. They’re still young, they have a lot more experience and knowledge than they did 12 seasons ago, and Dean is canonically stronger and faster than ever. Piss off with the ageism, show.

      1. Crowley also put the idea in Lucy’s head that the lol are a threat to his son.
        I bet we will find out that Crowley engineered Lucy’s power up too in order to find and kill the nephilim and get rid of the lol.

        1. How do you feel about NAPHIL for the progeny? The show keeps using NEPHILIM which is PLURAL (as though Baby Lucifer is an Imperial WE).

          It just bugs me. CASTIEL at least should use the proper term.

      2. What I meant about being in their 30s is that I just don’t want them eating out of mini-marts. I ‘like’ that Dean has a memory-foam mattress. And they can cook an actual meal. Their lives have been so diminished; they are now ‘used’ to how little they have in their life but sometimes when I think about it I want to cry for those two little boys who had so little and I want them to at least have a place to hang their suits.

        I read others saying that they want ‘all’ motels all the time but we ‘still’ get motels; I JUST WANT them to have one thing: the LoL. I like the garage and the kitchen and the bedrooms and the telescope (WHY is there a telescope underground? Could they climb to the top and break out thru the glass? Anyway, they appear to get out fairly quickly on Thursday at least in the BTS pics.) and the whole milieu of the Bunker.

        So it is not anybody’s ‘age’ it is my wish for one little ‘easement’ in their lives.

      3. I did not mean Sam and Dean are ‘off their game’ I meant that Dean in particular has taken such joy in having a ‘home base’ that I want them to have it.

        He nested quite quickly.

        I don’t like various headwriters ‘stripping’ the boys down. I think for instance that while Frank (Sera’s character) was right that ‘everybody’ in America was looking for a black ’67 Chevy so they had to hide Baby I was so HAPPY when Dean brought Baby back in Survival of the Fittest. Same thing with Sera ‘trying’ to kill both Castiel and Bobby in Season 7. She wanted the two to have ‘only’ each other. I get ‘it’ but we see so many Hunters with homes and I just ‘want’ the boys to have someplace to walk around comfortably in their underwear. Because their lives are so truly impoverished.

        1. I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to say that you thought Sam and Dean were off their game. However, the various “old” jokes this season imply that the writers intend this. Which is really pretty dumb, if you think about what has been shown before. Besides I like seeing them in their older versions. The greater knowledge and maturity they show as they have worked through various crises and personal issues over twelve seasons, gives the characters additional depth. And on a purely shallow level, I like looking at men better than boys. I only started watching SPN two years ago when my daughter asked me to. There is no denying the actors were good looking young men in season one, but admiring them too much felt a bit like paedophilia. Now I can enjoy the view guilt free. But I guess I’m showing my age.

          I agree that it is nice to see them comfortable in a home in which they feel safe. They grew up truly impoverished (ie not merely lacking money, but lacking all basic resources ). And the mindset that goes along with that has never really left them. And the bunker is an interesting place. But I wonder how they feel about it now, both since Kevin’s death and this more recent invasion by the BMoL. ( Great name by the way.)

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