Supernatural -- "Various & Sundry Villians" -- Image Number: SN1312a_0027b.jpg -- Pictured (L-R): Jordan Claire Robbins as Jamie Plum and Jensen Ackles as Dean -- Photo: Dean Buscher/The CW -- © 2018 The CW Network, LLC All Rights Reserved

The Official Supernatural: “Various and Sundry Villains” (13.12) Live Recap Thread


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Starting now.

Then recap of “Regarding Dean” last season and then bringing us up to speed with Lucifer’s depowering subplot this season. I sure hope the last time we see Asmodeus this week is in the recap because bleah.

Cut to Now on I-135 Just North of Wichita, KS. A guy named Dale walks into a liquor store and exchanges grunts with the store clerk (indicating they know each other). He sees two blondes giggling in the security camera and goes over to investigate. They are, of course, pretty blondes. And once one of them slips a hex bag in his coat pocket while the other one says a spell in Latin, he immediately falls in love.

They then ask him where Lebanon, KS is (he says he’s never heard of it, which seems unlikely) and then they con him into robbing the liquor store and giving them all the money and booze. He also kills the clerk, Marty.

When he comes out, they brain him with a sledgehammer, because their mother always told them to make deaths “look non-magical” so as to avoid attracting the attention of Hunters. Which is fortunate, since these two girls don’t look as though they’ve got a lot going on upstairs, in addition to being spree-killer witches. Also, the actresses are overdoing it just a tad.

Cue title cards.

Sam’s working at a table in the Bunker. Dean walks in from another room with some books from the MoL library he’s found on otherworldly dimensions. He struggles with one called “Jour et Nuit,” despite having no trouble with the Latin titles of the others, and Sam has to tell him it’s French and pronounce it correctly. Either this is bad writing or the show’s portraying Sam as pretty naive here, since Dean wouldn’t have been able to determine that any of these books were about otherworldly dimensions unless, y’know, he could read Latin and French (and we already know he can read Latin). Which means he’s just messing with Sam to get Sam to look through the books for a way to find Jack so that he can go out on a beer run.

Oh, and by the way, Sam is still in full-on Negative Nelly mode. Because it’s halfway through the season and reasons.

There is also a brief discussion about how “Castiel” checks in every day, as we see Castiel in prison, being taunted by one of Asmodeus’ demons. The demon (named “Dipper” for Idon’tcarewhatreason) also taunts Lucifer, who is annoyed that his jail cell is too warded for him to escape. For the moment. Boy, demons sure are stupid on this show, aren’t they?

After the demon leaves, Castiel mocks Lucifer (because Colonel Sanders – sorry, Asmodeus – is so “smart” that he allowed his two captive angels to be in adjoining cells so they could plot their escape) and Lucifer tries to get Castiel to give him some of his grace so they can both escape. Castiel’s not buying it, not even when Lucifer brings up his own grace-eating days. Castiel also mocks Lucifer when Lucifer calls Asmodeus his “weakest creation,” even after admitting that Asmodeus managed to learn shapeshifting/illusion on his own. Castiel wonders aloud that if Lucifer is being imprisoned by his weakest creation, what does that make him?

Dean is returning from his beer run when he encounters the witches from the teaser in the parking lot (they sure do hang around liquor stores a lot). One sister is screaming for help for the other sister, then slips a hex bag in his coat pocket when he leans over the other sister to help and says the Latin words (“Aegrota amore”) again. As with Dale, Dean’s eyes glow pink and he becomes putty in the women’s hands, kissing the “injured” sister at the first one’s suggestion.

It turns out they know his name and were looking for him. Being under the spell, Dean does not see this as odd.

Sam greets Dean as he comes back into the Bunker. Dean is giddy and “twitter-pated” (his own words). He talks about being in love and would be charmingly goofy if the show weren’t playing what is basically roofie-rape for laughs. Sam starts to realize this is not one of Dean’s usual volatile moods when Dean takes out the Black Grimoire and starts to walk out with it, declaring that it’s a “gift” for his new lady-love, Jamie.

I gotta give Sam credit here for twigging very quickly something’s wrong and trying to handle Dean with kid gloves (since Dean, already volatile, can be extremely dangerous under a spell of compulsion like this). He mentions Becky and the love spell, but Dean starts to turn scary, all while smiling and sunny and basically channeling Clayne Crawford in Lethal Weapon (no, really; Ackles gets him just about dead-on). Sam manages to snag the keys, so Dean says he’ll just walk. Sam tries to grab his arm, and that’s when Dean whips around and cold-cocks him. Knocks him right out. He does say to an unconscious Sam as he walks off that he will give him an ice pack after he returns. Not even the strongest love spell seems capable of subsuming his brotherly instincts.

I have to laugh at the people who are complaining and wondering since when has Dean been stronger than Sam? Um, I dunno, since always? The only time Sam was able to beat Dean was when he was drunk on demon blood and Dean didn’t want to fight him in “When the Levee Breaks.” In fact, it was a major plot point that Sam was able to beat Dean under those circumstances when he never could, otherwise.

The other thing is that it’s never been fully resolved how fully human Dean remains after a year in Purgatory and having the MoC. Chuck did say that Dean would be forever “tainted” by it and Dean did retain abilities specific to Amara in season 11. And we know Dean is still able to do things like fight multiple demons at once, which ought to be beyond human capacity.

Dean arrives back at the parking lot with the book. The sisters are smiling, though one of the girls grumps that they wanted the Impala, too (no shocker that was a no-go for Dean, even under compulsion). They were just discussing in Valley-speak whether to “make the call” and the younger one says she won’t. They’re just going to use the book for their own purposes and not call whomever they apparently stole it for.

They are about to brain Dean with the sledgehammer when Sam shows up in the Impala and comes out, gun drawn. But Dean attacks him and knocks him over as Sam tries to get the hex bag out (having figured out the situation pretty quickly, despite his concussion).

Then the sisters do a very, very stupid thing for which I lose all respect for them as villains – they just drive away. They don’t try to kill the Brothers. They just leave.

Anyhoo, Sam gets the hex bag out (it’s pink, of course), but before he can burn it, Dean starts to choke him out, while apologizing. But then the bag burns and the spell breaks in a pink flash. And Rowena shows up.

Cut back to Lucifer (because sure, now that Rowena’s back from the dead, what I wanted to see was more played-out Lucifer, but at least we get some Castiel mocking him, so there’s that). Lucifer is trying to make a stick lift, though apparently unable to (hmm). Dipper comes past and tells Castiel Asmodeus has “big plans” for him once he returns.

Lucifer yells after the departing demon that alt-Michael will come over from the other ‘verse and kill them all. We then get a very odd bit of infodump. Lucifer proceeds to As-You-Know-Bob to Castiel that no matter the version of Michael in whatever universe, Michael is ruthless and determined and tunnel-visioned and will get over to the SPNverse by sheer force of will.

This makes no sense for two reasons. One is that Castiel is also an angel and knows perfectly well what Michael is like. Yes, Lucifer has had an encounter with alt-verse Michael that Castiel hasn’t, but Castiel hardly needs to pump Lucifer for info about what all versions of Michael have in common.

Second, if Michael is so scary and determined and blahblahblah, why is this universe’s version of him still in the damned Cage?

Lucifer then starts talking about how much alt-Michael is torturing Mary and how it’s like nothing he’s ever seen. Dear God, I am so tired of this show’s ongoing obsession with comparisons of who got tortured the most.

Anyhoo, Castiel finally shuts him up with talking about Jack, how Jack is a lot like his mother and wants to do good, and how Jack resurrected Castiel from the Empty. Lucifer is so mad that he finally is able to TK the stick into the wall. Which gives him an idea.

Cut back to Rowena at the Bunker with the Brothers. Yes, she’s in the Bunker. Also, she’s pouring the three of them whiskeys. Which the Brothers are willing to drink. And nothing bad comes of it.

They ask her how she’s still alive. She’s cagey about just how (and they don’t mention their encounter with Arthur and what he told her about the resurrection device she gave him). She just says that it took a very long time to heal this time round and she doesn’t want to have to go through it again. She admits to having put a tracking spell on the book (hence why she’s there now) and calls Dean “lover” (at which Dean looks less-than-nonplussed and Sam smiles). A joke about “fifth base” in which Rowena teases Dean about his being roofied and supposed lack of sexual expertise fails, though.

There’s also a sad moment when Rowena finds out that Crowley is dead. It’s a nicely gauged mix of emotions as she reacts with both anger and hurt. The Brothers’ insistence that he died a hero doesn’t comfort her, since she’d prefer a “living” (so to speak) son, “even one who hated me,” to one who is dead and gone forever. Of course, there’s her grandson, but he’s in Heaven. Which she can’t reach.

It turns out that what she’s after is a spell in the book that would break a binding the Grand Coven once put on her. Needless to say, Sam and Dean aren’t too thrilled about the idea of just giving her more power. But they do, in the end, agree to work with her to get the book back. And then they’ll talk.

I should probably refresh everyone’s memories that the Black Grimoire is the book of spells the Brothers “liberated” from the Cajun witches Rowena helped them defeat in “Regarding Dean.”

I like this scene. Everyone in it is a thief, murderer and con artist, and they’re all working angles. And yet, you can tell there’s a shared camaraderie. When Rowena claims she’s “changed,” I find myself hoping she really has and I think the Brothers kind of do, too. The two MOTWs seem quite flat in comparison.

So, naturally, guess where we go next? A hardware store where the witches are trying to read the book they stole (they kinda suck at it) and magicking a staff guy. The younger girl, Jennie, seems to have the magical talent, though that’s not saying much. A young African American woman working there calls them out on shoplifting, to which they respond with some downright nasty snootiness. Ooooh, burn.

They then read that they need a human soul for their spell, so they zero in on an innocent young stock boy. I’m guessing, from “Regarding Dean,” they mean the spell the Cajun witches were using to try to resurrect their brother.

Back at a house, they’re reading the book over the body of an older woman. Jamie shows Jennie a photo. They’re in it with the woman. It’s their mom. They have a discussion over Jennie’s uncertainty whether she can work the resurrection spell and how much they miss their mother. This is probably intended to add some depth to their characterization, but between the Valley-speak and the references to how many people their mother murdered in her lifetime (and how many people they are willing to murder now to bring her back) the scene manages to generate no sympathy for them whatsoever.

We then hear a man’s voice from the other side of the room. It’s the poor stock boy, who is completely enspelled. Coolly asking Jamie if they still need that spell (Jamie, of course, says yes), Jenny strolls over the boy and stabs him to death. Then she walks away.

The Brothers and Rowena (in the backseat) arrive in Stillwater, OK. Rowena says that her tracking spell on the book really only works for general location and when it’s moving – and it’s stopped moving. They have to ask around to find the sisters. She offers to interrogate the locals herself, but the Brothers point out that her methods tend to be extreme and fatal. Or extremely fatal. Take your pick.

Sam offers to babysit Rowena in the car, while Dean goes out and does interviews. Rowena makes a final suggestion – that Dean talk to the woman. She says she’s pretty sure “these girls aren’t popular with other women.” We see Dean quickly process this and nod, taking the suggestion on board. Rowena doesn’t insult Dean by asking him if he knows how to talk to women about other women. She knows he can talk to women about all sorts of things. After all, she (and we) are pretty certain he lied about not remembering the conversation she had with him in “Regarding Dean” about Chuck and Amara.

Cut to Castiel and Lucifer. Castiel is entertaining the demon, Dipper, by insulting Lucifer. But this turns out to be a trick. When Dipper goes to mock Lucifer, Lucifer yanks him up against the bars, then reaches through them (despite the sparks) and stabs him in the neck with the stick. This somehow breaks the warding, both on his door and Castiel’s. The demon turns around and gets smote by Castiel.

Naturally, more demons show up, but Lucifer and Castiel somehow have angel swords now, so this ought to be a short fight.

In the car, Rowena is bored and asks for music. Sam points out they only have Dean’s hard rock collection. Exasperated, Rowena says that surely she can “enslave” a few townspeople to tell them what they need to know.

Sam: I’m pretty sure you can. I’m also pretty sure you shouldn’t.

Rowena: Bless your precious little heart. You just described my entire life.

Ah, Rowena, how I missed thee.

In a surprisingly thoughtful moment, Sam gently tells Rowena that even if she gets hold of the book, it won’t help. She’ll still feel “helpless.” Rowena at first doesn’t want to talk about it (her fear of Lucifer is quite genuine). Then she gets teary and admits the scariest part of Lucifer’s burning her alive and crushing her skull – “he showed me his face. His true face. I’m scared, Sam. All the time.”

At that point, Sam admits that he’s seen it, too, and it “still keeps me up at night.” When she asks him how he deals with it, Sam admits that he really doesn’t. Mostly, there’s always a new world-busting crisis, so he just “pushes it down” (much like his brother with his own traumas). He could talk to Dean, whom he knows would listen, but for whatever reason, he never does. In a weird way, I think Sam may actually find comfort that Dean would listen, even if he never unburdens himself to Dean, just as he and Rowena find some comfort in unburdening themselves to each other in this scene. Awww.

Dean goes into the same hardware store where Jamie and Jennie were earlier and he encounters the same clerk who called them out on shoplifting. She’s skeptical at first of his intentions (though she definitely likes the tall drink of water standing in front of her), but when he makes it clear he’s there for revenge not love, she has no problem whatsoever giving up the address of “the Plum sisters,” whom she also calls “a whole mess of trouble.”

“You going to be really mean?” she asks.

“Yeah,” Dean replies, in a tone with a whole lot of intent.

“‘Cause somebody sure needs to be,” she finishes, giving him the address. Can we see her again? I like her.

Sam is telling Rowena that it doesn’t matter if she gets her power back, she’ll always feel helpless, as Dean returns to the car. At that moment, Rowena gets out, claiming to need some fresh air. But when Dean rather stupidly says he has the address, Rowena gets a look at it and then tosses down a hex bag, shouting, “Manete! (Stand!)” before fleeing.

As the Brothers try to get the hex bag (and Dean calls Sam an idiot for letting Rowena get under his guard), Rowena goes to the address. There the two witches are arguing about their spell having gone wrong (the poor clerk is quite dead at this point, still smiling). Rowena comes in and growls at them about not waiting for her. Turns out she was the one they were supposed to call and she had them get the book for her, after telling them about the Winchesters and where it was. But they double-crossed her. Shocker.

Anyhoo, it turns out they already did the spell on their mother and brought her back as a mindless, violent, magic-proof zombie who goes after Rowena. As she barricades herself in another room, they think this is funny because … well … they’re really dumb.

Sam finally manages to get the hex bag and Dean burns it. Then they go after the witches.

Meanwhile, Castiel and Lucifer are escaping from that old sanitorium the show is always using as a set. Lucifer tries to persuade Castiel to give him his grace, then tries to stab it out of him. Instead, Castiel stabs him, saying “This is me learning from my mistakes.”

At their house, the sisters are still mocking Rowena when the Brothers enter. The sisters aren’t terribly impressed by the Brothers’ guns, but Dean unwisely tells them they have witch-killing bullets, so the sisters use a TK spell (one they just learned, I guess) and then go after the Brothers with a knife and a hammer and superstrength. Sam gets his ass kicked, though Dean holds his own pretty well against Jamie (and is even winning), until Jamie calls for help and Jennie hits him in the leg with her hammer.

But the sisters are distracted by Rowena shouting for advice on how to deal with a magical zombie, and Dean suggesting shooting the mother. When Rowena actually does, though, the sisters inexplicably keep going after the Brothers. This gives Rowena time to recover a bit and use an “Impetus Bestiarum” spell (the one she used on that poor prostitute in her second appearance) on them, then compels them to kill each other. Though looking a bit startled, the Brothers don’t make any effort to interfere.

Still favoring his knee from the hammer blow, Dean insists they take the Black Grimoire back. As Sam goes to get it from Rowena, who whispers desperately to Sam that she can’t “feel that helpless again.” She then appears to leave empty-handed, but Dean watches her go with a considering look.

Back at the Bunker, Dean is still hurting and is disgusted at himself for having fallen for a love spell (didn’t see any choice for him in the matter, but okay). But as they drink beers, Dean points out to Sam, “You do know Rowena is not our friend, right?” He then opens the book. The page with the spell on it that Rowena was seeking is missing, torn out. Dean wasn’t fooled.

Sam admits he let her take it and that if she “breaks bad,” he’ll kill her himself. But he feels that if she encounters Lucifer again, he’s on Team Rowena and wants her to be able to “make him suffer.”

Dean accurately pegs this as part of Sam’s depression. Sam says that Rowena’s not the only one who “feels helpless.” He admits that he started the season with a plan that involved Jack, but with Jack gone, he doesn’t know what to do. Dean says calmly, “We’ll figure it out.” Sam asks how, when they have no plan? Dean just steadily says that the two of them will “figure it out.” Sam looks less sure, but doesn’t argue.

In the last scene, Rowena is kneeling inside a pentacle/devil’s trap with candles. She recites in Latin, asking for her “voice” back and ending with “Fiam invicta!” (I am invincible!). She also cuts her throat vertically, though this doesn’t kill her. As she bleeds from her eyes, glowing purple bonds surrounding her break and the candles gutter out. She smiles, totally healed, and then her eyes glow blue. Possibly not an angelic blue (though who knows? Maybe she said yes to Michael in the Cage and that’s how she resurrected), but still a very unsettling color. Also unsettling is the smile.

Credits


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69 thoughts on “The Official Supernatural: “Various and Sundry Villains” (13.12) Live Recap Thread”

  1. Ok stupid plot point #1: there would be cameras inside the store. Yes. Then they killed Dale by the pumps. As though there are no cameras on the STREET! And a sledgehammer? Oh yeah, THAT is a weapon of choice for a HUGE number of murderers.

    I felt bad for Dale and the counter guy. I never figured out why the witches had to kill or have killed everybody the came into contact with.

    1. I’m guessing it was for kicks, mostly. Though in the case of one of them, they needed a soul for their mother-resurrecting spell. Remember that souls have magical power.

      And I agree about the CCTV cameras, but there’s a lot of dumb about these women. I don’t buy that they would have made it even as far as they did.

      1. It’s just they are so mean about it. So heedless about their effects. Those are the kind of people who get caught. Remember when Rowena was explaining witch hierarchy to the 2 hookers in Girls, Girls, Girls? I wonder if the two of them were not very powerful and have to work in concert.

        1. I think it’s a given that these two are bottom-feeders, especially without their mother (who sounds as though she was downright cold-blooded).

  2. They are sociopaths and mediocre witches.
    I think the twirl gave Dean away to Sam.
    Their desire to get mom back mirrors that of the Winchesters… so I am doubling down on Mary not being Mary, ie. Michael!Mary.

    It has been too long since I have seen Lethal Weapon. I need more explanation as to who Dean was channeling. Mel Gibson’s character?

    Jensen was sublime in this episode. Rowena is always a joy especially now that she is a true frenemy.

    I thought Jared did a good job two.

  3. I think she said yes to Michael too. They close in on her face which is out up when her eyes go blue so I tbink Michael is on the board. After all she is the o or one that knows how to access him. It is a smart move
    The throat cutting move looked awfully similar to grace removal. I wonder if she had to remove her natural magic and become human to become Michael’s vessel. If so her plan is to kill Lucifer not just protect herself from him. She and Michael have an agreement to kill him, which may explain why Lucifer had to monologue about what a maniacal single minded focused bad dude Michael was. I guess it is possible that Castiel only dealt with middle management like Uriel and Zachariah. One got the feeling that Michael rarely got involved in stuff… The Song Remains the Same being a notable example and of course showing up at Stull to kill Lucifer
    Bully for her to go after this with such gusto.
    I thought the car talk was sweet and heartfelt.
    I got an Ocean’s 11 super thieves vibe from the 3 of the talking.
    Rowena definitely tapped Dean when he was losing his marbles .
    If 4th base is intercourse, 5th base must be anal… Seems like demon Dean did that in his threesomes with Crowley…
    Yeah it was obviously the same book. She wanted it last season too. She’s been planning to off Lucifer for a long while.
    It’s possible she put Michael in a holding cell and he’s been waiting for her to unbjnd herself. I am not sure if he was in her before her eyes went blue or healed her… Cool idea though. Would explain the cagey way she discussed her healing.
    I suppose it is also possible that Rowena used magic ages ago to trap an angel and that is why the coven bound her. IDK. Cool special effect….
    Regardless Rowena alive means she can release Michael if she hasn’t already. I fully expect Dean!Michael to be on the board after AU!Michael/Mary comes back with Jack. I assume Jack can get back without a dream walker because he knows this universe… or Kevin will be able to help.
    Where is Ash with his string theory door opening mojo? He would be an awesome asset.
    And that car talk with Rowena was certainly a prologue for heroic Sam facing Lucifer again to say yes. Lucifer will want his A-game and his OTV. Who knows maybe he can heal his grace in Sam. We do not know what arcangels can do.
    Is Lucifer slowly regaining power? Or was it just anger mojo. He is currently more powerful than a normal angel per Castiel’s stabbing attempt.
    I reckon Sister Jo is a fallen angel using its powers to heal, hence Lucifer shows up to steal grace.
    Glad the sisters are dead. Glad Rowena isn’t. Maybe Ferrrgus can be resurrected.
    It is looking like we are going to get a fully loaded Winchester Apocalypse.

    1. CC I looked ‘5th base’ up on Urban Dictionary and it ‘is’ anal.

      They had interesting ways to describe it too. So I actually learned something from the show!

      OK I can buy that she deleted her ‘natural’ witch magic and then ‘took in’ Michael. That is actually a very cool idea.

      Like you, though, I don’t want anybody to get between Michael and Dean because I want Michael!Dean to fight AU!Michael sometime this decade.

      I thought the sisters were still in Lebanon and did not get that everybody moved the action to Stillwater OK (where mama’s body was rotting) which is where the clerk who knew them was. I thought all the action was still in Lebanon.

      Maybe the sisters ‘felt’ Rowena was coming and got out of there because they were greedy little shits who did not want to share the Black Grimoire and thus ran away rather than finish off Sam and Dean?

      They were just So STUPID it was offensive to stupid people everywhere. There was nothing appealing about them, I did not care that they loved their mama. ALL of them deserved to die.

      And I liked Hardware Clerk a lot too. Sassy. You know, she was the only person we saw the sisters interact with they did not either kill or try to kill?

      1. Yeah, I figured it was anal even before I looked it up. What I don’t buy is that Dean’s never done it. Dean’s worn women’s underwear and engaged in threesomes with the King of Hell, to the point the King of Hell became quite romantically obsessed with him. While I’m sure there are some things Dean hasn’t done or heard of, or even would not agree to do, I don’t buy that anal (which really isn’t all that exotic) is one of them.

        I think the idea with the sisters was that they were so anxious to resurrect their mother that they just high-tailed it back to Stillwater. They were remarkably stupid, though. And viciously uncaring about the people they murdered.

        1. Are we sure about the threesomes with Crowley? I know they were sharing a room at the sleazy bar Marie worked but that is some tough territory, two guys and a gal (or heck three guys I don’t judge) just does not seem like Dean’s comfort zone. Of course I don’t know what Demon!Dean’s comfort zone is.

          Also I just watched Into the Mystic and I remember at the time people said that the Samulet was in Sam’s ‘memory box’ at the end and I just did not see it, I saw a crucifix and a leather ‘circlet’ now THAT could have been the Samulet but I did not actually see the little horned deity. Was the leather circlet the Samulet’s ‘tell’ in this and other’s saw the little horned deity? You know the Amara Season is a damn GOOD season week after week. Really good writing and I like Dee Wallace (Stone?) in the episode, and EILEEN, oh I love Eileen. VERY good writing the whole season. I can’t think of an episode I avoid (like Remember the Titans or Man’s Best Friend with Benefits — episodes to AVOID if one does not want to bang one’s head like Dean when the Banshee came after him). Golly, they had a BUNCH of crap in Season 8.

          1. Yeah, we’re sure about threesomes with Crowley. Though technically, what Crowley actually talks about is an orgy. Also, we know Dean had a threesome with twins at the beginning of season three.

            I think the amulet just plain disappeared for the years between when Dean dropped it in the trash and when it popped up in Sam’s pocket. It would take some creative fanon-ing to come up with explanations for that plothole.

          2. Misha and his wife were engaged in a long time threesome and she wrote a published book on how to make threesomes work in the bedroom.
            I thought they references a threesome at some point during the demonic romance.
            According to my husband the devil’s threesome is two men and one women.
            I turned one down in high school. I regret that now. Back then I was not comfortable with my body.

    2. Doesn’t Sam have some remaining grace left behind by Gadreel? I know Cas didn’t get it all out with the Angelic Grace Extractor – aka hypodermic needle. Perhaps when/if Lucifer hops back aboard the Sam train what remains will be just the amount he needs.

      As far as Rowena taking advantage of Dean in his altered state? Personally I don’t think so. Tho she probably thought about it.

      Thought the two actresses portraying the witch sisters were pretty and beyond that, pretty bland. Don’t know if it was the direction they were given or what but for such twins of evil I couldn’t have been less moved. Camp after last weeks horror? I think I’ve got whiplash…

        1. I thought they were discussing a reboot. It is on before Supernatural on TNT so I get some bits of an episode and I just gave up on that series when they dumped Shannon Doherty. Maybe I would’ve cottoned to Rose Magowan if they had SHOWN Doherty’s death and then the funeral. I never ever warmed up to Magowan. Could not watch after that.

          So now the reboot is ok’d?

          1. I know they ordered the Charmed reboot to pilot 11 days ago. Keeping in mind the usual time to film an episode and get it through post-production (6-8 weeks), we likely won’t know its fate until the end of March.

            I get what you’re saying about their killing off Pru, after years of making her a major character and giving her so much screentime. But it sounds as though Doherty’s bad behavior just made it all too untenable.

  4. I thought Cas’ plan all along was to get Lucifer angry. Angel powers often manifest when they are angry it seems.
    It seems Lucifer is regaining power slowly though doesn’t it.
    Did Cas seen a little weird to anyone else.
    With all of the repeating masks and shifting appearances I expect one or more people are not who they seem to be… besides evil Kaia who is wayward sisters’ problem.
    Misha is so deft at changing his voice and mannerisms when he has played alt Car characters.
    He seemed off. Oily goo Cas? Maybe… Maybe also explains why Lucifer got stronger.

      1. I was just watching Into the Mystic, in which Luci!Cas is in the LoL looking for ‘lore’ and Dean walks in and tells ‘Cas’ about his ‘connection’ with Amara and ‘Cas’ put his arm on Dean’s shoulder and I tried to remember if Castiel ever touched Dean on his own, or if it was always Dean initiating hugs and shoulder bumps and stuff.

        Do you remember? I can’t. Well when Dean is injured Cas walks up and touches his forehead to heal him. That is the only time I can think of Castiel touching Dean.

        1. Castiel touches Dean pretty frequently. In fact, one of the first times is when he takes Dean back to the past in “In the Beginning.”

  5. Remember when in the Beautiful Room how Dean almost broke his hand when he hit Castiel? Or when anger got the best of him Dean punched the Cupid? Is there any reason why Dean or Sam…can do so now without the same outcome?

    1. Only time I ever remember Dean punching Cas and not feeling the pain is when he was MoC!Dean in The Prisoner.

      When have Sam and/or Dean actually punched Castiel in the last two seasons?

    2. Can you explain what you ate thinking.
      Dean’s knee hurt. Dean is stronger than Dam but not angel strong. Dean hasn’t said yes yet.
      My guess is it will be revealed in one of those awful flashbacks they singer and Dabb love.
      Dean will show up with a repaired lance and claim he fixed it and it is good for stabbing at least but then he will do something… wow… and before we can enjoy the moment they will do one of those horrible flashbacks and show us Dean praying or something
      Od being gaslight or however Michael does it without Zachariah and saying yes…
      Anyhow, whatever Rowrna’s blue eyes mean, the fact that she is alive and helpful and can open the fighting cage means our Michael can easily be on the board.
      And if he is really crazy Jensen can have fun.

      1. Dean had super-strength with the MoC. It appears that he lost at least some of that strength when he lost the MoC, but he never went back to ordinary human strength. Even right before he got the MoC, he killed three demons in front of Cain, which ought to be beyond multiple humans, let alone one.

        We have also seen him fight angels and he still seems pretty capable of holding his own with them.

        1. Yes… but that is Dean 13 years in not Deab!Michael. He is not here yet.
          It also is why of the plotting in patience was so bad. Dean simply wouldn’t have died or been completely overpowered.

          1. I didn’t say that Dean was Dean!Michael. I was just pointing out that while Sam’s experiences (including, at one point, being Sam!Lucifer) had been making Sam more human over the years in terms of physicality, Dean’s experience arc has been the opposite. And even in the beginning, Dean was always a better fighter than Sam.

          2. Preaching to the choir about that.
            I will never let the Phoenix ash go…
            And Carver defined Dean as being the supernatural brother starting in seadon 8 premiere continuing through the season 11 finale.

        2. He does pretty well with angels befote the MoC but seems to rely on sigils when he loses ground even post Purgatory. Post Purgatory shows him holding his own with demons. Even his hearing improved.
          Post MoC he can hold own with angels too which is why the Patiemce episode and any other time Dean is surprisingly incapacitated is strange. It is not as if he is prone to evil monologuing.
          He is not showing archangel strength yet.

          1. I don’t think he’s ever shown archangel strength, even when he had the MoC.

            Either Dean’s hearing has improved to bat signal levels or his “Spidey sense for evil” (as early show scripts put it) has jacked way up. Then again, he didn’t sense Asmodeus, though that may just have been for Plot Stupid reasons.

  6. Paula, I can’t reply at your comment so I am putting it on the bottom of the thread:

    I think as part of her contract Spelling could’ve ordered her to do the scenes, telling her he would tie her up in court ‘4evah’ if she did not.

    She ‘is’ a good actress. I think she would’ve rocked saving her sisters and dying. Good death scenes could be written. THEN they could’ve shown her funeral. She would not have to be there. For some reason I remember the sisters as actually Catholic and Catholics have closed casket in the church. We don’t have to see a wake.

    Doherty created dissension on 90210 and got written off. BUT she did her scenes credibly. It just frosted me that there was no death scene. BUT Spelling knew what she was like when he hired her as ‘first’ (I think) lead in Charmed. I just think she deserved a send-off. Now the show went on for a long time after she died so I was a lonely outpost of disapproval. I get that. But unless you have some info SHE absolutely refused to fulfill her contract and Spelling for some reason did not sue her I think it was his decision.

    And the ambiance of the show for me was that the three actresses did not have the ‘charism’ of sisisterliness.

    ANOTHER reason to admire Jensen for making it his business to ‘buddy up’ with Jared (at least I heard it was HIS idea after all the crap-ola happened on Dark Angel; I can’t look at Jessica Alba or Michael Weatherly the same way) and ‘create’ a family dynamic on screen.

  7. I love The Magicians. I also appreciate that it is a Sera Gamble show, conceived by her. I mean the characters follow the books, some of the same plotlines, but THIS is her baby.

    I remember I watched Revolution to see how Kripke would lay out another ‘universe.’ I did not like Charlie from the beginning. I was pissed they killed the dad in the first 15min. I LIKED the brother. I was ticked when after spending the whole season trying to rescue him THEY KILLED HIM. I thought the Uncle was interesting; Mom drove me to distraction (she was ‘such’ a tough broad and daddy had been too weak to kill — but NOT TOO WEAK to raise his kids and build a life — it just pissed me off). The storylines just got more convoluted and confusing. I ‘tried’ to watch the show. I did. I wanted to see the lightning strike again. But no.

    Now we have Timeless, which managed to get a short renewal after a cancellation. I like the computer nerd, I don’t hate the historian, the Army guy is a disaster of angst. I like the woman boss who fear(s or ed) losing her family. I find the premise intriguing. BUT it just doesn’t gell. I watch it for the history aspects (I loved the Bass Reeves episode — you have discussed your pleasure with “Western” history and your knowledge. Bass Reeves ‘was’ the ‘real’ thing imo. A real hero. Part of the reason I hate Woodrow Wilson now is HE HAD ALL NEGROES working for the federal government and Reeves lost his job!) and am amazed that ‘anybody’ could be so knowledgeable about so many time eras. I am from Chicago I liked the HH Holmes episode! A ‘lot’ a real lot. I especially wanted to see how Kripke handled ‘that’ episode as opposed to the No Exit episode. Same topic matter basically.

    But I don’t think HE has done anything as good as Supernatural in concept but I think SHE is doing a great job with The Magicians. REALLY good dialog and characterizations.

    I just wanted to discuss how sometimes when you deal with a showrunner in depth (like I chew and digest and suck out the marrow of every SPN episode) I feel I know his work enough to ‘look’ for certain things…but in Kripke’s case I can’t find any thread to pick out. The 3 shows aren’t similar at all and the ‘thought’ put into the last 2 just lacks from the thought he put into SPN. Of course, it ‘was’ his first baby so he had it in mind for years and got thru lots of stuff. But I am impressed by how much of things ‘working’ is actually Kismet and it’s two actors who just jelled as The Brothers Winchester.

    1. Kripke’s original concept was essentialky the Night Stalker in everything but name. I believe the studio made him change it, possibly because of the contemporaneous Night Stalker reboot.
      His originasl concept was not a pair of brothers fighting evil.
      The difference was Kim Manners and a few really good writers.

      1. And Jensen… who built Dean into an icon from tthd ground up and who has charisma in spades and chemistry with every other actor he is paired with.

  8. Watching Don’t Call Me Shurley on TNT. I think that is the finest SPN episode just because we ‘finally’ get God’s take on the matter and I ‘got’ it. And I have to say, Dean saying ‘DO something, YOU DICK’ was the only time God was moved to DO something because somebody asked for/prayed to him to DO something. Only time.

    1. Nope. Chuck let Dean alter the Apocalypse story. We may not have seen Dean call God out but God let Dean dictate how the Apocalypse played out
      Dean is the most powerful being in the Supernatural verse because he is the only one Chuck lets make the final call.

      1. I agree, like getting them out of the chapel and onto the airplane in Lucifer Rising/Sympathy for the Devil. But Dean asked for help when Sam had his ‘blood’ relapse in My Bloody Valentine and got nada. Now maybe God ‘did’ help but he did not know. Maybe Sam’s issue ended the next morning, just not THEN, you know?

        I also just figured out why no SPN next week: the Olympics. DUH. No Project Runway or Daily Show either. I wish SPN was repeating Tombstone, that’s the one that ‘our’ CW channel was out for a day and a half and I watched at the library, but I want the whole season so I can watch and see how things develop. They are repeating Breakdown which is cool but I have that dvr’d and saved and watched it four times already.

  9. Watching Don’t Call Me Shurley and All In The Family and my husband said, really WELL-WRITTEN episodes and then Lucifer!Castiel shows up and starts with the suckage. The NEXT episode tomorrow starts with the ‘family therapy’ scenes and GOLLY the suckage is big on that one. I do NOT understand why Chuck will NOT end Lucifer OR at least give Sam and Dean a weapon to kill him if they need to.

    All this crap-ola about ‘recaging’ him drives me NUTS.

  10. I forgot to ask, Paula: what do you think of Amanda Tapping’s direction of the episode?

    I should look her up to see what else she has directed.

    First off, the girls were so BAD I don’t know if it was the writing or their acting ability but they were just irritating.

  11. Well that surprised me!

    And again I think Singer gives the Duo a series of directives, things they have to put in in furtherance of the rest of the season plot and SO MUCH plot is stuffed into the episode it is just a rush from plot point to plot point. We had three major storylines and alluded to the fourth. (Won’t give any spoilers I hope)

    I don’t know if Buck-Lemming were ever good writers. And I blame Singer for that. They have 85 plot points to incorporate and they do obviously but LAWD A-MIGHTY this episode was one stuffed sausage of a viewing.

  12. Hmmm. The end took an unexpected turn. Not sure how they are explaining that bit of lol.
    I figured Daneel was playing an angel. That was very Ruby/Sam 2.0.
    Still think we will get Dean!Michael.
    They are still trolling Apocalypse 1.0 with plotlines and characters.

    1. Unexpected turn? How so? Do you mean the stuff with the “prisoner”?

      A weapon that only an archangel can wield to kill another archangel? Hmm. That sounds familiar. Just hope Singer and Dabb don’t try to do a horribly botched retread of the MoC with someone else besides Dean.

      1. Yes. I wasn’t sure you had watched it so I spoke in code. And why was his mouth stitched shut.
        Is he AU Gabriel. Oh wait… Gabriel faked his death and sat put the world ending last year.
        As if plotlines weren’t crowded enough
        I do enjoy Letch even if he is as slimy as they come.

          1. Thank you for letting us know. You take care.

            TNT just began the first season again so I am reading your in depth recap/reviews for Season 1.

            Such insight. I am enjoying the book.

      2. Don’t they have their own blades. If angel blades can be wielded by everyone and their mama… why the difference…
        Singer and Dabb really suck at this.

  13. Assuming it is AU Gabriel because he has been brutally tortured.
    Not sure how Asmodeus acqyiredhim and his blade or why reviews Letch as a peer.

  14. Paula, have you got the flu? (Little kids ‘galore’ that I know have been in ER/Urgent Care this week and it’s only Tuesday. ) I was sick and am STILL coughing.

      1. They did the same thing this season and she had to fight again for equal pay.
        Duchovny is really phoning it in. She is awesome and she is in high demand.
        They actually did an episode focused on Skinner.
        The opener was rough but the rest of the episodes have been solid. A great mix of humor, horror and sci fi tinged with apropos talk of government conspiracy. Nothing as great as last season’s Mulder and Skully meet the Were Monster, LMAO still… but very solid… and one episode came pretty close to matching it.

  15. Boy, I had a post here and it was getting long and then it just disappeared. Ticked me off.

    I believe you, CC, but I can NOT believe that the show was underpaying the CO-LEAD. I thought she was just ‘changing emphasis’ or something because at the time she announced she was not re-upping for X-FILES she also announced she was leaving AMERICAN GODS. To underpay her is show-runner malpractice.

    I want to say that this type of BTS stuff surprises me usually (like co-leads who HATE each other). I am watching Star Gate: Atlantis now (I ‘love’ a good ‘hard science’ scifi show). The first season had a character named Ford; I liked Ford. Second season he was written out and word was he was ‘difficult.’ So I went to IMDB.com and checked his work history. The guy works A LOT and has been on multiple multi-year series. So, if he was difficult, he either straightened out fast or he was ‘not’ difficult. The lead on the show, Joe Flannigan, was a good actor imo and I liked his part too. BUT after Atlantis ended he has not gotten much work. Not at all compared to Francks. So I am now believing that the two simply did not get along, but that Francks is not a troublemaker.

    Spoilertv.com had run various articles on people in tv who are getting outed for harassment allegations. Chicago PD had Sophia Bush as an actress on the show; she quit after 2-3 years. NOW it turns out Jason Beghe is under investigation for ‘bad behavior’ on the set of that show. (She was getting some sympathy tweets when HIS story came out.)

    I don’t expect everybody to act wonderfully all the time but CRIMINEE not to pay Gillian Anderson what she is worth to the show? That is stupid idiotic ‘malpractice’ and somebody deserves to be fired (but since the guy who runs the show ‘really’ runs the show nothing like that will happen).

    1. She got equal pay for both seasons of the reboot but she had to fight for it both times. I believe the fact they tried to underpay her again was the proverbial straw.
      It is a pity because she is amazing and the season is actually good thus far save the premiere.
      She left American God’s reputedly because she was there because of Fuller and Fuller left. They worked together on Hannibal.

  16. Oh, I got a comment from ‘way back in the ’90s, CC: I had read that Duchovny (?) and Anderson hated each other back then, but it was related that they had had a short relationship back in the early days of the first season (off on location All The Time) but discovered they did not much like each other and it never got better. Is that too ‘inside baseball’ for you?

    Again, this just makes me appreciate Jensen Ackles ‘more’ for making it his business to forge a relationship with Jared Padalecki. The show would not have lasted the second season.

    I just decided I liked the first and second seasons’ plotting. Looking For Dad (I accepted John’s reasons for staying away from his sons) and What’s Wrong With Sam–Demon Blood Kids were really good ideas. Heck, Dean’s Deal in season 3 was also stellar. Kripke had some good ideas.

    1. Might have been Manners
      Kripke initially planned to copy the Night Stalker.
      No brother. No family mythology.
      That was the pitch.

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