Supernatural -- "The Rising Son"  -- Image Number: SN1302a_0002.jpg -- Pictured (L-R): Mark Pellegrino as Lucifer and Samantha Smith as Mary Winchester -- Photo: The CW -- © 2017 The CW Network, LLC All Rights Reserved.

The Official “The Rising Son” (13.02) Live Recap Thread


Little late again. Anyhoo, let’s get started.

The recap has me snorting in laughter right off. The recap starts with Ramiel (remember him? I had to look up his name, he was that forgettable) spouting off about how crossing the YEDs is BAD and they will come after you. Sure, except that three out of four of them are now toast thanks to TFW, so not exactly shaking in my sneaks, Show.

The recap also tells us (again) that the Brothers have lost a lot of people in the past couple of episodes (Crowley is not shown or mentioned) and we get Dean’s insistence again that he will eventually have to kill Jack. Considering Jack is a bunch of cheap walking plot cheats, Dean’s absolutely right.

Cut to Now and two demons in Crowley’s throne room. One of them is a Lucifer loyalist (I believe I’ve mentioned before that demons are stupid) who is convinced the Lord of Hell will return and “bring us out of chaos.” Suddenly, exit door bursts open in a flash of light and in walks Colonel Sanders–sorry, Asmodeus, the last surviving YED. You see, the show kept a spare for our sins.

Asmodeus introduces himself by sparing the loyalist and two other demons, then burning the others in their hosts. He intends to rule until Lucifer “and his son” return.

Cut to a car chat between the Brothers, with Jack asleep in the backseat. Sam wants to drive (because Dean has been driving all night) and also to talk about their losses/lick their wounds one more friggin’ time. If I were Dean, I’d pull over just to slap him.

Sam also wants to talk about what to do with Jack. Dean says if they knew how to kill Jack, he’d be dead, already, and that’s still the plan. Dean points out to Sam that alliances with bad people and giving bad people the benefit of the doubt have never worked out for them. Dean doesn’t add that Sam’s judgement flat-out sucks in this area. I mean, Sam is so self-centered that he actually thinks opening up the rift again to find Mary is a good idea.

Meanwhile, Lucifer and Mary are trying to find a way out in a dead world. Lucifer is monologuing to Mary that he intends to trade her for her sons when they get back to SPNverse Prime. Mary points out that Lucifer doesn’t have the first clue about raising a child, which makes Lucifer snippy. But before they can bicker some more, a fireball blasts into the hillside next to them and Mary disappears.

Meanwhile, in Crowley’s Throne Room, the loyalist is reporting that both Lucifer and Jack have disappeared, and taking notes. Asmodeus is philosophical about the first thing, rather more annoyed about the second. After smacking the loyalist around a bit for being presumptuous and pedantic, he explains how he got the scars on his face (demons have never manifested scars on their host before, but this is a Nepotism Duo episode, so it’s Ignore All Canon And Make Stuff Up Time). He then monologues some more (another boring Nep Duo specialty) about how he got them. He wanted to please Lucifer, so he freed some demons called the Shedim in order to train them. Lucifer was afraid of the Shedim, so he locked them back up and scarred Asmodeus. And that’s how you fail the Lord of Hell.

At a hotel, Dean is grumping that they should still be on the road. Sam points out that Dean was hallucinating about sheep. In the room, Jack starts to watch Scooby-Doo (obvious product placement foreshadowing is obvious). Dean sends him to the couch and gives him a Bible to read. Sam offers to let Jack sleep on a bed, but Jack says it’s okay. He starts reading the Bible.

Later, as they eat and Sam wards the room, Jack eats like … well … Dean and copies everything he does (which irritates Dean). Mind you, Jack doesn’t copy Sam at all.

Jack asks about Lucifer in the Bible (Lucifer is actually a very different thing in the Bible than he is post-biblically and is not Satan). The Brothers sort of fill him in and Jack says that hey, he’s God’s grandson (honey, everything in Creation is God’s children, so don’t get so excited).

Man, there is a lot of yakking in this episode.

They hear a noise at the door. The Brothers pull their weapons and Dean drags the intruder through the door. It’s Donatello. Remember him? He was a Prophet in season 11 and Amara ate his soul. He explains this to the Brothers and that he solves moral dilemmas by asking “What would Mister Rogers do?” And it appears that with God gone–again–he’s retired. Except that God was gone for a long time before he returned, so that makes no sense.

Anyhoo, he sensed Jack’s birth and followed him. The Brothers make introductions back and forth. And they get Jack tatted up and Dean points out to Sam that he’s fixated on the kid a bit too much. Meanwhile, Jack zaps the tattoo artist when he’s startled by the pain.

It’s no use. The tattoos just disappear. And afterward, they’re being watched by a possessed homeless woman.

Jack gets upset during the ensuing dull debate over Nature vs Nurture and teleports. So, that answers Dean’s previous question about that ability. Jack pretty much sprouts abilities as the writers feel like it, which is not a good sign for this character’s longevity.

Sam goes and talks to Jack. Meanwhile, Dean is talking to a sketchy barmaid with daddy issues. Probably possessed. Ah, nope. The real barmaid is dead with her throat cut behind the bar and it’s Asmodeus in disguise. Or something. While this power has been shown before (in Ben Edlund’s “The Mentalist”), it has only appeared once, presumably because it’s hard to write around how the Brothers can compete with a shapeshifting demon that can also teleport.

Also, the death count of female extras vs male extras is rather lopsided this episode. Another Nep Duo kinda thing.

Wow, we’re only halfway through? Ugh. This episode is endless.

The next morning, Sam and Donatello have a conversation about Jack and whether or not he can be Good. Sam insists that Kelly was a saint and that Jack has only the vaguest idea about baby daddy Lucifer, so Jack can be Good.

I have to say I am completely over the way the show tries to handwave its over-the-top and well-telegraphed fridging of her by posthumously whitewashing Kelly. Kelly was no saint. She was originally a high-powered White House staffer who was also using her position to engage in a sexual affair with her boss on the downlow. When she found out she was pregnant with the Devil’s child, she ran away and later tried to commit suicide, while pregnant. The Kelly who revived was, at best, brainwashed by her son and at worst just a resurrected womb. She was a deeply flawed woman who ended up in the situation she did in part through her own choices (which did not include intentionally getting knocked up by Satan). I don’t think she deserved what happened to her, but I also think it’s pretty gross how the show keeps banging away at her “heroic” sacrificial choice to die birthing her son when by that point she literally had no choice left in the matter. As soon as conception occurred, she was a dead woman walking. That is a nasty message to send to women. Stop it, show! Bad show! [bops showrunners on the nose with a virtual newspaper]

Back to Mary, who encounters a gun-toting Hunter. After he establishes she’s not an angel or demon, he tells her there are very few women left and even fewer female Hunters. Then he gets all creepy on her. She fights back. He knocks her down and goes to shoot her, but Lucifer puts a fist through his back. Yes, that’s right. The show set that up just so Lucifer could save her life.

Mary is not appropriately grateful, so Lucifer tortures her a bit.

Hard to believe this episode was co-written by a woman. It is all kinds of bad-touching with the female characters for no good reason. But what am I saying? We’re talking about Buck-Leming here.

Back at the hotel, Sam ONCE AGAIN tries to force a conversation with Dean over their recent losses. I get the show thinks this makes Sam look compassionate, but all I can think is that all this terrible shared trauma that Dean is supposed to open up about seems awfully academic to Sam. Remember “Everybody Loves a Clown” when Dean called Sam out on that? Yeah. Better writers that time.

Then Donatello walks in with breakfast and doesn’t know what Sam is talking about with that earlier conversation about Nature vs Nurture. Seems Asmodeus stole Jack right out from under Sam’s nose. I legit laughed at Sam for that.

So, Dean goes into a room and encounters a demon. He gets his ass kicked and Sam stabs the demon from behind.

GODDAMNIT, SHOW, CAN’T YOU LET DEAN HAVE EVEN ONE KILL, THESE DAYS?

In the hallway, Donatello, who can track Jack, gets attacked (see what I did there?) by a demon. Dean takes out said demon with a thrown angel blade. Still pretty salty about the show handing Sam Dean’s kills on a platter after Dean gets tossed around the room, though.

Out standing in some random field, Jack is being exhorted by fake Donatello to open up a hole to Hell and let something out. In the car on their way to stop him, Sam looks in John’s journal and discovers a reference to a Hell gate that opens up to terrible, unnameable creatures (i.e., the Shedim). Except that the Brothers have that journal memorized at this point and ought to have been aware of that passage, as well as the significance of being near Jasper, WY. Big fail, Show.

Jumping back to Mary and Lucifer (too many friggin’ storylines in this one), with Lucifer whinging some more about Mary’s failure to respect his authority. I don’t understand why Lucifer is just walking around with Mary tagging along when he could just pick her up and fly wherever he needed to go in nanoseconds. That’s lame.

Anyhoo, some angels show up. Inexplicably, they are wearing military fatigues because…well, they just are. They demand that Lucifer identify himself. He kills them and then another angel shows up. Lucifer doesn’t recognize him at first, but it turns out to be Michael. This is ridiculous. Angels can see each other’s true forms inside their vessels, just as demons can see each other’s true faces inside their hosts. That’s just dumb. Hell, the entire storyline involving the Nephilim includes angels being able to sense archangels from a goodly distance away.

Alt-Michael monologues a bit and has a conversation of sorts with Lucifer. Then they, uh, fist-fight (no, I am not kidding; there are actual fisticuffs) and Lucifer gets his ass kicked. But alt-Michael decides to spare Lucifer because he needs him for some reason. We are not told what because that would actually involve plot resolution.

Anyhoo, the Impala finally arrives where Jack is being snookered into allowing out creepy orange-arm creatures with black claws (that’s all we see of them). Asmodeus has to reveal himself when Dean shoots him and chokes out TFW. This cause Jack to go after him, so Asmodeus flees. I think.

Later, back at the Bunker, Sam tries, for the umpteenth time, to tell Dean that Jack can be Good because he “came through for us today.” Dean responds that it was just a reflex and goes to bed. On the way, he encounters Jack, who is passing the time stabbing himself, to no avail. Dean takes the knife from him. Jack worries he doesn’t have his powers under control and that “I will hurt someone.”

Dean’s cold comfort is that if Jack does lose control and have to be killed, “I will be the one to do it.”

Credits.

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50 thoughts on “The Official “The Rising Son” (13.02) Live Recap Thread”

  1. This Knight of Hell/Prince of Hell business drives me crazy. I keep trying to figure out the hierarchy.

    What I got Lucifer, who it appears to me brought four angels down with him, who became angel/demon Yellow Eyed Demons. They are truly Fallen, so they have some of their angelic abilities and not others. Super-demons.

    Lucifer corrupted Lillith. First Demon, White-Eyed Demon.

    Lucifer didn’t have to corrupt Alastair. I think he was an early demon, great power. White-Eyed Demon.

    When she got out, Lillith was in charge of Hell, but I believe Alastair was in charge of personnel. I think Alastair always obeyed Lillith, he was not moved by power he enjoyed being the eminence gris.

    Lucifer brought Cain into the fold, gave him the Mark. The Mark corrupted Cain so that he created the Knights of Hell, actual immortal demons (except of course to the first blade.

    Then we got two varieties of demons, the ones who run around doing mayhem and the crossroad demons who are a much more subtle variety, actually dealing with humans.

    I did not like Asmodeus as much as I expected to. You are right, he was all WHOWOOOWOOO and then nothing he tried actually worked. He had some skills, and I also wonder what these freaky Shedim are. Using Hebrew, is the singular then Shedd or Shadd for the name of the creature? What I gather, these aren’t demons, they appear to be analogous creatures of Hell, like the Hell-Hounds.

    Like you, I don’t think Sam is doing this for any reason other than getting Mom back. I also think there IS a possibility that Dean knows Mary is alive; he simply ALSO knows that opening the rift runs the risk of letting Lucifer back to our world again and he is PAYING THAT PRICE. I think it is possible Dean is lying to Sam about why he does not care to open the rift. ANY opening of the rift could let Lucifer out. And I personally think that Lucifer is one problem that Chuck should’ve dealt with before he left, HMMMM?

    So Donatello out of everybody who got their souls sucked is ok just by saying to himself, what would Mr. Rogers do? OK by me. I happen to like Keith S. and hope they bring him on as House Prophet or as a tutor for Jack.

    I don’t think it was so ‘cool’ that Sam got to kill the Huge Guy Demon that Dean was fighting. I loved Dean holding him down with his thighs. Hubba, Hubba.

    I did enjoy that Michael broke Lucifer’s arm so easily. I am really waiting to find out why AU!Earth is so screwed up if the Apocalypse happened, Michael won, Lucifer died. WHO IS RUNNING THE DEMON-SIDE OF THE WAR?

    One last thing: so glad SPN is back to being #2 show on the network. The problem with CW is they put all their eggs in one basket; first it was with the Vampire Diaries and the Originals, and then it was Arrow leading to the DCU characters taking over hours. If one starts to falter, they all falter at the same time. I am proud of SPN for being so GOOD after 12yrs.

    1. Yep, SPN is back to #2 on the network, just like that.

      Mind you, the CW is not in any trouble right now. In fact, it may be in better shape than it’s ever been because it got into streaming and other alternatives to live viewing very early, since it couldn’t compete in the latter category with the bigger networks. Now that the big networks’ ratings are crashing and burning (there are times when CW shows actually beat some of the other four), they are scrambling to catch up. The TV industry can move very fast.

      I’ll address your other questions in my review.

  2. That’s what it is: Sam is treating Jack like he treated Adam Milligan in Jump the Shark.

    So friendly but it turned out he was jealous and trying to seduce The Kid into the life. Dean called him on it.

    Maybe I am misjudging Sam; maybe it is Jared’s acting in this case, he talks to Jack I see him talking to Adam. But I do not get this altruism, not yet at least.

    1. Pretty much. Sam doesn’t do things unless there is something in it for him. I know his fans hate that, but it’s an indelible part of his character and his central conflict/contrast with Dean. Sam is self-centered, to a fairly reasonable extent that gets ugly under extreme circumstances (like most other humans on the show). Dean is other-centered, to a really unhealthy extent where he loses his sense of self and becomes a psychotic weapon in the service of a very cold and remote sense of justice (or some really hot and righteous fury; Dean is a creature of extreme temperatures).

      After 13 seasons, especially with this mediocre and unimaginative writing crew, that is unlikely to change. They’re just going with what has always worked.

  3. Personally, I enjoyed that one a lot more than the last one. It dragged in places, but Asmodeus looks like he could be fun. After so many years of demons who are both bland and stupid, with a few notable exceptions, it was fun to see one with a mind and a plan. He certainly zeroed in on TFWs weakest link without any problem. He obviously is planning to do more than rule UNTIL Lucifer returns, if he is attempting to resurrect creatures that Lucifer feared so much.

    That said, there were some serious plot inconsistencies. First, why did they let Jack and Donatello sleep in an unwarded room. While having Jack sleep in the other room to avoid further argument would make sense on a family drama in which the greatest risk was hurt feelings, it made no sense here. This placed both Jack and Donatello at risk. At the very least, Sam should have sent Donatello
    in with Dean, and shared a room with Jack himself. I’m surprised Dean allowed it.

    Second was Donatello himself. Now I like Donatello as a character, but he seemed downright unaffected and unbothered by the lack of a soul. Even Sam, season 6, seemed a little bothered by what was missing from him – until he decided he didn’t want it after all. Since the biggest role of the soul on SPN seems to be impulse control, Donatello’s animal passions must be pretty mild.

    The bit about Mr. Rogers was dumb, but does present an interesting concept, also alluded to in season 11. It appears that goodness can be arrived at through reasoning, rather than merely being an inborn trait stemming from the soul. Donatello based his on following the example of a role model, Len on the memory of goodness, but both present a model in which moral reasoning is just that – the ability to reason. Both were able to recognize a moral crossroad. This presents a contrast to Souless Sam, who never once reasoned his way to a single good action and blithly commited murder and mayhem wherever he went. Sam may have a certain amount of book smarts, but his ability to reason past his own desires is seriously lacking, even when what he wants will be objectively harmful even to him. After all, opening the rift again to get Mary has as much risk of harming Sam himself as it does anyone else. Maybe this explains his general tone deafness when it comes to moral reasoning. His soul supplies a desire for goodness, sometimes at least, but his brain lacks the wherewithall to figure out that this entails more than just looking after one’s own interests. Sadly, this quality seems all too common in real life.

    By the way, is the concept of a moral crossroad related to the idea that demons appear at them?

    1. As usual with the Nep Duo, the first two-thirds really dragged and then it was ACTION 1/3 HOUR for the fourth act. They don’t seem capable of doing anything else but boring monologuing for set-up. It’s sad that this is all a writing duo who have been working in Hollywood since the 1970s are capable of, not just on a creative level but purely on a technical level. They must have plateaued very early in their careers.

      I agree that having Jack and their Prophet in another room was such a facepalm that I even wondered how it happened in the first place. I think Dean was out, or something, when the arrangements were made. He looked pissed at Sam when he came in and found out.

      I agree totally that the way they brought Donatello back (and the whole thing with how he’s dealing without a soul) was really dumb, but eh, it’s Keith, so I’m just going to roll with it. At least he’s a character I enjoy. I just hope they don’t kill him off to create CONFLICT AND DRAMA when they’ve got a conflict-and-drama-sucking black hole character (Jack) right there in the story.

      Your question about decisionmaking at crossroads is fascinating. There’s not a lot online about it. As best I can make out, the metaphor dates only to 1795 and may be connected to an Irish battle that year called the Battle of the Diamond, which resulted in the formation of the Orange Order (ever heard of a yellow light that’s been on a while in an intersection being called “Protestant”? It’s from that). It seems the combatants made the decision to fight after having gathered at a crossroad for days and then worked themselves up to it.

      However, it seems unlikely that it’s related to demons. Crossroads as a pivotal point between this world and a darker one is a very ancient concept, definitely pre-Christian. The deities one invoked were extremely powerful cthonic gods, which the Christians later tried to downgrade to extremely powerful cthonic demons. Hence why you see CRD deals in Supernatural.

      But the above term doesn’t appear to have anything to do with that. It’s just that crossroads were also places where people gathered (because they were easy to find and usually had a tavern or other settlement there).

  4. Jack should have seen Asmodeus’ thorny beauty straight away too. That should just be how he sees and not a skill he needs to decide to use like teleporting.
    I thought Asmodeus was fun too at least more entertaining than most demons with his southern fried monologues. I guess he will succeed with releasing the shadin (sp) because busy work will get us through the season.
    Donatello made no sense in this episode. I would,rather super Sam have jerry rigged the EMG to track Jack.
    The Sam kills are ridiculous however the character has nothing going for it other than being a walking character bullet (Sam is sensitive and smart) and he has so clearly been pushed out of the mytharc as the human Winchester. .
    Dean is the one with the Responsibility for keeping everyone safe. Dean feels the guilt when they fail. Dean will be the one to deal with Jack. He is working overtime not to feel sympathy for the kid. Jensen conveyed a lot with his performance. He is fully invested in the mytharc. We are so getting Dean!Michael because Jack, Lucifer and AU Michael will need to be contained.
    I liked Lucifer getting his comeuppance. AU Michael is pretty scary compared to most angels. We’re they wearing human baby ears necklaces. I didn’t see them.
    Evavie the AU doesn’t have to make sense compared to our world. We don’t know how many differences there are. Obviously AU Michael is very different and Mary didn’t take the deal. So no Dean and Sam.
    Jack is growing on me. I loved him imitating Dean. But it is so hard to watch.

    In contrast I am squee over the Exorcist. I knew John Cho was the target from the get go and felt something really weird w as up with the girl but I did not realize she was the demonic entity and only he can see her until we saw the teen react. Whoa. Whoa. What a twist.

    1. Jack ought to be able to “see” both angel and demon’s true faces. The show seems to have given him all of these offensive powers with absolutely no perceptive ones. Sort of a complete opposite to Kevin. It’s quite boring.

      1. This may be analogous to an Angel plot re son Connor. When Connor’s daughter with possessed Cordelia shows up as an adult, he could SEE her as the ugly creature she truly was but she was ‘his’ little girl and he did not care.

        Now Asmodeus!Donatello should have been seen as not the same Donatello that Jack had JUST been spending time with, yes he should. But may Asmodeus had some way to cloak his actual essence and Jack may not have been ‘hip’ to that yet.

        Anyway, it’s an idea.

        1. Maybe Donatello’s lack of a soul subtracted from his unique essence that Jack, as half angel, normally would have sensed.

  5. Jack does appear to have at least one power of perception. Even though Sam was the one who was “nice” to him, he appears to have figured out that Dean is the trustworthy one, and the one with whom he should identify. Dean’s promise to Jack at the end was chilling, especially as we know Dean always keeps his promises. But it was weirdly also a promise that he would not kill him unless he goes bad.

    1. Dean also, strangely enough, made it clear that Jack didn’t have to “prove” he was Good in order for Dean not to kill him. He just had to avoid going Evil–the same compromise he basically made with Benny. It’s not really that high a bar. If Jack can’t meet it, then yes, Jack is a monster who needs to go down.

      Sam has pretty much admitted that his reasons for being nice to Jack boil down to getting Jack to open up the portal again so they can go rescue Mary. So, he’s not being altruistic at all and would likely throw Jack right under the bus once he got what he wanted. Also, Jack comes off an awful lot like Max the Psykid in season one or Jack the Rougarou in season four. And Ruby claimed to be Good, too, as did Amy the Kitsune. Dean is right to question Sam’s judgment.

      1. The only time is negative about a supernatural companion is when he is threatened by their relationship of Dean; see Benny, Crowley and Amara. Cas too since that fed into Sam’s fall and need to outperform Dean.

        The bell tolls for Jack. He got off on using his powers and freeing the shading. He is a goner. Once he reopens the rift he’s toast one way or another.

        And yes. Opening the rift is foolhardy because Lucifer at the minimum could get back in and the chances are Mary is dead. Dean also probably recognizes himself in her actions. She went out fighting and made that sacrifice to save them and the world. Under those circumstances, with those odds Dean would not want the rift opened if he had beat her to that move. Dean is always willing to sacrifice himself however he has never knowingly risked the lives of others. Sam… well we all hate his refrain because it is selfish weak and not heroic.

        I do love Dean when he’s grumpy, no nonsense, grief stricken and on the verge of a breakdown. I smell mytharc… if we don’t die of boredom first.

      2. I don’t ‘know’ if this is what Jensen is playing, but I am really wondering if Dean keeps saying Mary is dead but secretly thinks she ‘might’ be alive but that IF they can somehow get that damnable rift open they COULD let Lucifer out.

        It’s like Sam’s ‘visions’ in Season 11: Dean did ‘not’ want to engage with Lucifer in the pit because Lucifer always manages to fool people. I mean, Sam did not say YES, ‘but’ he put himself at Lucifer’s non-mercy and then Castiel stupidly said YES. I mean did we actually NEED Castiel in the fight against Amara. He seemed pretty damn useless to me. The demons, the angels and the witches DID affect her; Lucifer stabbed her but ANYBODY in the room could’ve done that. SHE RIPPED HIM OUT OF CASTIEL pretty easily.

        IS there an argument for Lucifer’s usefulness against Amara? All he seemed to do was smirk his way across the screen imo.

        1. Dean is usually several steps,ahead of anyone else save Crowley… so yes… Dean has done mental calculations and Dean recognizes himself in Mary. Remember Dean didn’t save Sam in 6 because opening the cage was too dangerous because of Lucifer.

          1. Dean was usually several steps ahead of Crowley, too, once he figured out how to wrap Crowley around his little finger.

    2. I think the last episode showing him as listening to Sam to get an insight into Dean. That was most of what they talked about.

  6. Just a thought about Asmodeus: I somehow got the impression that Azazel (and now the other Princes of Hell) had been an angel. They all had ‘original bodies’ but Azazel maybe lost his body and then went from one body to another. We never saw him in the process of possessing somebody; we saw him in Dad (we know Dad was corrupt or else he would not have gone to Hell) or the doctor or even Frederick Lehne. Maybe he convinced them to let him in? Nah, I just realized he was possessing John at the end of Season 1. He was enough of a demon to just take? OK. I am willing to believe Asmodeus is in his original ‘human’ form. But again, can anybody figure out how the Princes of Hell have what I consider angelic powers as well as demonic powers if they aren’t fallen angels as I have just always believed?

    1. So far, they’re just advertised as demons, which means they’re ex-humans. Very powerful demons but just demons. Demons have a wide variety of powers. Some of them overlap with those of angels.

      Also, I think Asmodeus is fond of smoke and mirrors, so he’s not quite as powerful as he makes out.

      1. I have been thinking about this scar-business the whole damn day. I think about this stuff TOO much.

        OK: Lucifer scarred Amodeus and did a curse or spell that whatever form Amodeus inhabited would have that scar.
        To always remember how he broke one of Lucifer’s rules.

        Ta-da.

        Works for me.

        1. Or Asmodeus keeps the scars as a sign of loyalty to Lucifer to hide the fact that he is disloyal.
          The writers did not think it through guaranteed.

          1. That doesn’t make it any less ridiculous that a soul that’s been burned to black smoke can have scars. It’s a dumb idea and one that’s never been show before or even hinted at.

  7. At the time, I figured it occurred because it was given by an archangel. But since scars would be a part of the host body rather than the demon itself, this means Asmodeus is either locked into that body, like Crowley did to Lucifer, or as Eva said, they transfer from host to host. But both seem a bit pointless since he’s also able to shapeshift, or take on a glamor or whatever. I don’t think he is actually loyal to Lucifer if he is trying to free the Shedim, but he may want to appear loyal.

  8. Unlike Azazel who was loyal to Lucifer, and Dagon who was a flunky, Asmodeus is a true opportunist. I don’t think he felt comfortable acting even while Lucifer was in the cage, with Azazel trying to free him. But now with Lucifer truly gone and the other princes gone, he is free to act. Albeit he is preparing for the possibility of Lucifer’s return.

    It’s also true that he’s probably not as strong as advertised, or he wouldn’t be trying to get these extra weapons (Jack, the Shedim) early on. I don’t think he could take on Lucifer, or even Abaddon or Crowley without them. His best chance is subterfuge, but he shot himself in the foot by acting too early. Now everyone is onto him.

    I’m beginning to think that Jack was not the source after all of the visions of a glorious future which seduced Castiel in season 12. It stated that Lucifer sometimes made contact with him , and Jack’s current actions don’t seem consistent with that kind of knowledge or ambition. At least not yet. Or it might just be a plot inconsistency.

    1. Your last point is interesting. Fetus Jack seemed more sure of himself and worldly than Just Jack.
      He refers to the death of the bad lady as an observer not the perpetrator. That said he seems to view his burgeoning powers as an observer except when he willfully was using the to raise the shadeem. And again I will say that he looked evil at that point. Power corrupts unless you are Dean Winchester.

      I saw a spiel about a WFB article on this episode which focuses on Sam/Dean, Good/Evil, light/dark. Have not read it. Obviously this storyline is fanning the fangirls ire. Dean is being realistic albeit depressed and Sam is a hypocrite after his treatment of Benny and Amara.

      1. Jack not-so-occasionally gets a look during or after using his powers that indicates the show is going for some kind of split-personality, dual-nature thing.

    2. Wow, the idea it was LUCIFER reaching out to Castiel thru Jack rather than Jack himself. I will wait for Castiel to come back.

      I wonder if Chuck is acting from afar. I wonder if Chuck knows AU!SPN is f-d up and HE opened the rift so that Sam and Dean will eventually get their butts over there to fix the world again.

      Just an idea.

      1. Except Lucifer was counting on Dagon to watch Jack for him and keep him safe until he arrived AND he was passed that cas had stolen Kelly from Dagon.

        1. True. Either the kid has some kind of alternate personality, or he is being manipulated by someone–like, say, Michael from the Cage.

          1. So interesting Snow… would explain his fixation on Dean. I am telling you….
            All roads lead to Dean!Michael.

            And Dean is at that exquisite breaking point where no amount of blood and violence can take the edge off of his depression and grief. It’s the perfect Dean storm and perfect recipe for him to do a Gonzo reckless move to get a win. He really needs a win and he has already drawn his bullseye on Jack.
            We have seen him like this before. In season 5 he said yes to Michael for one hot minute and if Michael had not handed the details over your Zachariah it just might have stuck..
            Season 6 he kills himself to save Sam.
            Season 7 he’said out for Dick
            Season 9 he takes on MoC for a win. S 10, 11 and 12 he repeatedly sacrifices himself.
            The only option is Dean!Michael.

    3. I agree that Asmodeus is an opportunist. I just don’t think he’s a very good one. I mean, Lucifer was in the Cage for a long time after Crowley took over, and then under Crowley’s thumb for a bit more, yet Asmodeus stayed very quietly in his hidey-hole. That says something about how powerful he actually is.

      Whatever Chuck did to make Lucifer unable to kill Sam and Dean (especially Dean) appears to be still in effect. Lucifer may also fear going after Dean directly because of his aunt. Dean is still her favorite.

      1. Yeah. I mean Lucifer can kill them by snapping g his fingers yet somehow doesn’t.
        With Crowley one sees his respect for Dean and desire to be a bro. Lucifer should have killed them immediately when he was released. The fact he did not neutered him.

        1. Previously, Lucifer didn’t kill the Brothers because Sam was part of his plan and killing Dean outright would have brought down Michael’s wrath (one of the few perks of being the Michael Sword).

          Since near the end of season 11, Lucifer has not been able to kill either of them. Chuck rendered him physically incapable of doing so. While it’s unclear how much of that canon the current showrunners deign to remember, Lucifer did comment last season that he couldn’t kill them, but he could kill the people around them. Even so, he has to be wary because Chuck has already openly and personally intervened once on Dean’s behalf (Lucifer is unaware of all the behind-the-scenes machinations that led to that decision), and Dean is not only Amara’s favorite, he’s pretty much the only being in the SPNverse besides her brother she gives two hoots about–and she’s never actually been mad at Dean. And Lucifer is acutely, painfully aware of the consequences of arousing his aunt’s wrath.

          Therefore, in that sense, his plan to spare Mary and trade her to her sons (who are immune to his powers) in exchange for his son is logical. Whatever antics he gets up to regarding the Winchesters (well…Dean), he has to keep on the downlow to avoid getting Daddy and Auntie involved.

          1. When did Lucifer say he could not kill S/D?

            The only time they talked that I remember is Rock Never Dies.

      2. It also shows that Asmodeus and Dagon are cowards at heart. If the premise of the YEDs is that they are super powerful ancient demons, Asmodeus must have had some ability to compete with the likes of Crowley or Abaddon. However, there is no hint of the other three taking any kind of active role when Lucifer rose from the cage the first time either. Ramiel I get, because he didn’t care, but Dagon should have been right at his side and Asmodeus making at least a show of support. They only act when they are sure they will be safe.

  9. I think Lucifer is actually afraid of the brothers, or at least Dean. For all his bluster, his plans against them have consistently failed, at least in the long run. Since his entire personna is based on his superiority to humans, it must be terrifying to be constantly outclassed, even if they do have help from above. I’ll bet he is secretly a little afraid of Mary as well, even while he uses her. He plans to trade her for Jack, who he wants but doesn’t care about, but it’s also an effort to save his own skin.

    1. I agree. I do think Lucifer is also actually afraid of Dean, and not just the consequences of angering Chuck and Amara. He doesn’t fear Sam at all, but Dean worries him.

      1. I agree too. In 11 at the cage Dean showed no fear. Lucifer should have killed him then. This guy said no to Michael, showed up to Stull as a human and has absolutely no fear. Dean Winchester is awesome.

  10. Also, is Lucifer’s inability to fly and inability to recognize Michael evidence that the fall through the rift depowered him in some way.

  11. Evavie at the end of 12 Chuck appeared to hand wave away Lucifer’s ability to kill them using powers.
    He may be able to pound them to death if given a chance although the fact that he didn’t mid-season suggests he can’t. He grandstands a lot in lieu of killing.

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