Supernatural --"Ladies Drink Free"-- SN1216a_0071.jpg -- Pictured (L-R): Kathryn Love Newton as Claire and Adam Fergus as Mick Davies -- Photo: Diyah Pera/The CW -- © 2017 The CW Network, LLC. All Rights Reserved

Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 06/19/17


We need your help!

Contribute monthly via Patreon (which includes perks), make a one-time donation through Paypal, or buy us a coffee.

You can access previous spoilers columns at Innsmouth Free Press here.

If you’re up for a great superhero action film with a woman at the helm (both in the lead role and as director), check out Wonder Woman. It had reached $297.2 million domestically and $571.8 million worldwide as of last night. It’s projected to top $700 million, though personally, I’m still crossing my fingers for it to hit a billion at some point. It’s been stronger than expected across the board, even though more women than men are reportedly watching it (traditionally, superhero films skew male). Hopefully, it will open a lot of doors for women in front of and behind the scenes in the lucrative blockbuster category.

Also, it’s popular because it’s great fun and a lot of people are going back to watch more than once.


Sci-fi Spoilerpalooza
By Heather S. Vina

Heather’s off on a well-deserved vacation this week. Expect her back in the next week or so.


Supernatural (Thursday nights, 8pm, CW)
By Paula R. Stiles

Check out my Patreon page. Help me keep this column going, pay Heather, and start doing Supernatural reviews again.

The repeats of season 12 continue this week with 12.09 and 12.10. Looks like they’re actually going to repeat the whole season this time. Which makes sense, considering these repeats are getting the same demo as the Reign series finale last Friday.

This fall, the show will remain at 8pm on Thursdays and come back on October 12. Its lead-out will be Arrow.

San Diego Comic-Con, runs July 20-23. The final schedule will be out about two weeks beforehand, but the show will probably be on again on Sunday morning.

Season 12 is available for pre-order on Amazon and will come out on September 5.

There will be three calendars for 2018: two large calendars out on July 1 and two mini calendars on September 1.

For those following the repeats or otherwise trying to catch up, here is the Season 12 line-up (23 episodes): “Keep Calm and Carry On” (12.01) official photos and press release; “Mamma Mia” (12.02) synopsis and photos; “The Foundry” (12.03) synopsis, official photos, sneak peek, and promo; “American Nightmare” (12.04) synopsis, official photos and promo; “The One You’ve Been Waiting For” (12.05) synopsis, promo and set photos; “Celebrating the Life of Asa Fox” (12.06) synopsis, photos and promo; “Rock Never Dies” (12.07) synopsis, photos and promo; “LOTUS” (12.08) synopsis, photos and promo; “First Blood” (12.09) synopsis, photos, promo and sneak peek, as well as an extended promo; “Lily Sunder Has Some Regrets” (12.10) (this is the one with Alicia Witt) synopsis, photos and promo, and sneak peek; “Regarding Dean” (12.11) tech survey card, synopsis, set photo, promo and official photos; “Stuck in the Middle (With You)” (12.12) tech survey card, synopsis, preliminary photo (this one’s directed by Richard Speight Jr.), and official photos and promo; “Family Feud” (12.13) synopsis; “The Raid” (12.14) tech survey card, synopsis, and promo and official photos; “Somewhere Between Heaven and Hell” (12.15) tech survey card, synopsis, official photos and promo; “Ladies Drink Free” (12.16) tech survey card, synopsis, photos, sneak peeks, and promo; “The British Invasion” (12.17) synopsis, photos, mini-doc, promo and tech survey card; “The Memory Remains” (12.18) tech survey card, synopsis, photos, promo, sneak peek, and title; “The Future” (12.19) tech survey card and partial title card, showing the director is Amanda Tapping, and the writers are Robert Berens and Meredith Glynn, and synopsis and promo, sneak peek, and photos; “Twigs & Twine & Tasha Banes” (12.20) tech survey card, showing Richard Speight Jr. returning to direct and synopsis; “There’s Something About Mary” (12.21) synopsis, photos and promo, tech survey card, and directed by John Showalter; and “Who We Are” (12.22) and “All Along the Watchtower” (12.23 – season finale) synopsis, photos and promo, tech survey card, and directed by Robert Singer and written by Andrew Dabb.

Andrew Dabb teased to TV Line that there is a hint of where they’re going in season 13 in “Ladies Drink Free.” This, predictably, failed to get very many fans excited. I laughed when the same article talked about Robert Singer saying at the time that hint of whatever-it-was would be “subtle.” As if.

Now, I like Claire, but I’m not wild about how this current team is writing her, and ohGodpleasenomorewerewolfstories. It might be interesting to see the Brothers doing some monster-curing, but the show has never gone there successfully in the past and it’s a bit early for the writers to have any real clue what they’re doing this season, anyway. I just hope we’re not stuck with Lucifer Jr. for the whole season because ugh.

Show producer Jason Fischer reported on Twitter that everyone would start getting back to work on Wednesday (June 21).

I’ve moved my Official live recaps to this site and simul-recapping at Wayward Friends, with reviews to follow. I’m working on the review for the season finale now.

Ratings for the repeats of 12.07 (“Rock Never Dies”) and 12.08 (“LOTUS”) “were even” at 0.2/1, and down from last week to 0.68 and 0.65 million respectively. Probably because those episodes weren’t very popular the first time round. Especially “LOTUS.” And yet, we were stuck with that storyline all season, anyway.

The show also came in fourth on Netflix’s list of most-watched shows with 2.6% of total downloads.


Like this column? You can help keep it going by contributing monthly via Patreon (which includes perks), making a one-time donation through Paypal, or buying us a coffee.


45 thoughts on “Whispers, Spoilers & Speculation Corner: 06/19/17”

  1. Curing monsters could be interesting if it were approached with any kind of logical consistency. It could also be a reasonable reaction to the wholesale slaughter the BMOL engaged in.

    Maybe they are planning a “training up the next generation of hunters” storyline. All the “old” jokes last season could be a really unsubtle attempt to foreshadow this. Though I TOTALLY object to the idea that they are past their prime (really they are only just reaching it), they are smart, experienced and ethical (well Dean is), and they could have something to offer younger, less experienced hunters.

    I guess we’ll have to wait and see.

    1. I like the idea of a Hunter government. I’m less wild about training up new, young Hunters because I think of the Potentials storyline from Buffy and just cringe. The “hot, new protege” storyline is as old as the hills on TV and it *never* works.

      Also, as you say, they are nowhere past their prime. They’re on top and likely to stay there for a long time, especially with Dean still effectively being immortal.

      1. That ‘potentials’ was just AWFUL on Buffy. First time I think I noticed Felicia Day. What was it, 30 girls at Buffy’s house sleeping in shifts. And they all freaked out on a mission and ran and Faith thought they were right, and then Spike showed up and said BUFFY was right and then Buffy just went and did the whole job herself. I remember when Faith showed up first, she was fearless. (I think there was a young black woman who was a Slayer as well because Buffy had a short death or something, right, and she got killed in one episode? SHE was ok.) The ‘potentials’ were just not the right stuff in my opinion. Buffy, Faith and the one episode Slayer were all fearless and the potentials were wanna-bees. JMO. (I think when Buffy was by-herself Faith was trying to take over and I ‘think’ that was when Buffy killed Nathan Fillion. Could be wrong. Long time ago and I actually hated the story line.)

  2. My guess is that they will set up Wayward Sisters. Jody is popular with everyone and they gave her best mom status as well as established off-screen hunter cred last season. Donna Is popular with some. They set Claire and Alex up as female versions of Dean and Sam early on and have spent a lot of time on Claire’s backstory . Plus her baggage includes Castiel and Jimmy Novak both played by fan fav Misha. He alone guarantees ratings success for any spin-off.

    Also J2 can do the odd guest appearance in a spin-off.

    I don’t like Alex perhaps because she is being given those unsympathetic Sam tropes. Also the actress has failed to make her resonate with me. She should be recast. They don’t really seem to like writing for her either.

    They can’t really do an entire season of monster cures. At any rate the Winchesters have always advocated curing before killing for proto-monsters since they are humans who didn’t have a choice.

    Sadly Dabb could mean he wants to explore monster Society. There human need for families is interesting however we already all can’t unseen Bloodlines.

    1. The very last showrunner (or writer) who ought to be exploring “monster society” is Andrew “I don’t understand why everyone hated ‘Bloodlines'” Dabb.

      I don’t know if a spinoff would work at this point. A woman-oriented one seems most likely to me, but I don’t know if 1. these writers can pull it off at all (Dabb, Singer and the Nepotism Duo all suck quite hard at writing female characters; Perez, among his other many deficiencies, ain’t too hot at it, either) or 2. the fans would be up for it.

      I don’t mind Alex. I would rather the writers got away rather quickly from making her and Claire Sam and Dean analogues, though. They need to be their own characters and not the Coy and Vance of Supernatural.

      1. When Highlander was in its final season they brought on a whole bunch of women to show ‘female immortals’ and then just went with Amanda. I liked a couple of the women; so there is ‘that’ precedent here.

        Is there anybody who does not like Donna? One of my fave episodes is the extra-creepy Plush. She has the right attitude imo to be a Hunter and a cop and keep her life (wonder if she got together with Second Doug? I liked him).

        1. Amanda was the worst. The spinoff should have been Methos.
          The potentials were awful. I adore Spike. I fell in love with him all over again when he was the only one who stood by Buffy and then died for her.

          1. But he was not a chick. I would’ve loved a Joe and Methos Show. Maybe Peter Wingfield would still be acting if they had cast him, or as a sidekick with Amanda. I did not ‘hate’ Amanda, my reaction to her was that she was a Miss Marvelous character who was just the bestest at everything she did. They clearly showed Methos making mistakes all the time but knowing how to adjust. And Nick was just a nothing-burger of a ‘boyfriend.’

          2. I actually wrote a fanfic series about Methos and Joe You can find it here:

            http://thesnowleopard.net/arch2.html

            I totally would have watched one based on that episode they did, but the execs were stuck on doing a show with a female lead–a very *bad* show with a female lead. It wasn’t really Elizabeth Gracen’s fault and Amanda was a decent character. But everything else on that show was really stupid and I hated Nick. He was obnoxious.

      2. Coy and Vance? I thought about that all day and JUST REMEMBERED Coy and Vance were the ‘fill-in’ Dukes of Hazard when OG Dukes were on strike.

        That bothered me all day.

    2. I liked Alex because all the crap with SUPER MARY was going down. (Listen, Mary is a GOOD hunter, yes, but Mr Ketch raved about her like she was the second coming of ORION. That bugged me every f-ing step of the way. She was GOOD. But Sam and Dean have such an efficient team-work schedule I just kept saying, MEH. Mary showed up and used one of the BMOL ‘specialty weapons’ and all was copacetic. Just bugged me.) And THEN Alex clocked Mary and Jody finished the job. SUPER HUNTER Mary got put down by a high school student.

      As time went on I got more and more and MORE mad about Mary.

      1. Mary is fucking awesome because she has all of the best traits of Dean and she sucks because she has all of the worst traits of Sam. It doesn’t distract from Dean’s prowess for Mary to be a great hunter.
        Sam is a meh hunter. Always has been always will be. The only reason he has survived this long is Dean.

      1. It’s the obvious choice and one that could be good. J2 can visit and Castiel has a familial connection.
        Dabbler and company suck though.

  3. The Hollywood Reporter is reporting today there IS something being put together with Jody (dammit, JODI or JODY, can ‘never’ remember). bit.ly/2rMTDae

    Hope that embeds.

    Well, I like Jody and I like Donna and I like Doug (I would like an episode in which Jody and Donna are ‘hunting’ and they get into trouble and Doug stumbles in and not ‘saves’ them but somehow enables them to save themselves — and him. That actor did ‘burns’ so well, WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?) and I like how the show was maturing both Claire and Alex. They were ‘bitter chicks’ in their earliest episodes and now seem like they are becoming young women I would actually like to meet.

  4. Oh HELL. On another website somebody brought up SUPERMARY and how SHE could mentor everybody and I just threw up a little in my mouth.

    The ‘mother of the Winchesters.’ Yikes. I am rewatching 12 and I just don’t like the place Mary has in the Hunting World. Her parents died. She married John. She hunted part time after her marriage. SUPERHUNTER MARY was never a ‘legend’ in the Hunter World or Sam and Dean or at least BOBBY and/or RUFUS would have heard of her. Right.

    1. Actually, Mary is a scion of the Campbells, who were famous Hunters since the Mayflower. That goes back to…oh…season six.

      I didn’t mind the way Samantha Smith played it. Retch would butter Mary up with all that Best Hunter Evah crap and she’d just side-eye him with so much shade. She knew he was bullshitting her.

      But Mary has been portrayed as a Hunter raised from the cradle since season four. That goes way back. And I’ll take that over Fridged Mommy in a Nightdress any day of the week.

      Just, please, show, don’t bring back Krissy or Charlie.

      1. yeah, but DADDY Campbell was the true legend, the ‘real’ thing imo. We met Mary as a teenager or early 20yo I think. She was not hunting by herself.

        Yes, as a CAMPBELL Mary would be Hunter Royalty. OK. BUT she was just not that ‘impressive’ in her Season 4/Season 5 episodes. Not to me. She put up a good fight with Dean, Azazel and Anna. Dean did not want to hurt his mama. He put down COLE who appeared to have physical talent in a fight. She did not give Azazel any real trouble I thought at the time, he just liked her spunk (again IMO). Now the fight with Anna was a 1min wonder while Sam was constructing the sigil. I find it aggravating that the show ‘elevated’ Mary to Hunter EMPRESS. As Dean said in his ‘I hate you’ speech SHE left her family unprotected. She knew the 10yr was up (she may have forgotten Dean and Sam from ‘In The Song…’ but she definitely remembered Azazel in All Hell Breaks Loose 1. She remembered the night her whole family died (could never forget that date) and DID NOTHING to try to protect her children. I have read people saying she might’ve thought that Azazel would come for her (standard 10yr contract) but she had a baby, a toddler and a husband who could’ve been cannon fodder. And they were, weren’t they?

        It was not just this year but the way the Mary story line has developed I have less and less sympathy for her. She did this to them. NOW the very last episode strongly intimated to me that Mary ‘had’ to make a deal in order for the world to be saved. A world without Sam and Dean was DOOMED. I get it. But defenseless children…I can’t actually forgive the character for that. DEAN loves his mama, OK; DEAN forgave her. YES. But the 29yo woman who left her family unprotected because she could not bear to ‘think’ about it just … I was going to say disgusts me…yeah it DOES. She had ‘issues’ and I don’t care. I just don’t.

        Boy, I guess I have real problems with the way the show developed her. As time goes on I have found myself liking SGT MAJOR John Winchester and all he went thru; he protected those kids to his DEATH and I can now ‘see’ everything he was doing with compassion. (I hate that the show has ‘disrespected’ John more and more over the seasons. Saying he did the ‘best he could’ should NOT be damning with faint praise. JOHN raised the heroes that saved the ‘SPN’ world.

        1. PS Krissy might turn out to be a better character written by somebody who was not writing his niece as an avatar. I would be willing to watch an episode of her written by another writer who was not Berens (?); if she still sucks, OK BURN THE WITCH! I did not mind the girl Hunter, the boy Hunter was written SO BADLY as a horndog I hope he ran off with the cured vamp girl and became an accountant.

        2. [shrug] I feel the same way about John. Built up as a legend and then turned out not to be all that. And at least Mary wasn’t abusive to her kids. And she didn’t just up and leave her family unprotected. She didn’t know what the deal would entail, let alone that it would entail her death. Besides, trying to tell your family about the supernatural world on this show never goes down well. Look at what a jerk John was about it when he found out in “The Song Remains the Same.” Mary: “So, there’s this whole world of ghosts and demons and angels out there and….” John: “YOU LIED TO ME. HOW DARE YOU?”

          Plus, even if Mary had tried to tell John (or did tell John), the angels would have wiped both their memories.

          But again, it’s canon that Mary is supposed to have been a great Hunter. We just had not heard much about it before and had been expected (illogically) to assume she simply stopped hunting after her parents’ death.

          1. She’s an unapologetic feminist. I for one can feel compassion for what Dean is going through and also empathize with other characters. I thinknow the actress did a,great job of portraying her as a conflicted mother and badass hunter. Her sons are grown ass men whof don’t need their hands held or the crust cut off their bread.
            She on the other hand is suddenly confronted with strangers who are older than she is when all she knows and remembers are her babies.
            The woman is allowed to focus,on her needs.
            And in perfect Winchester fashion she was putting herself at risk bon-stop to make the world safe so that her boys didn’t have to make that sacrifice. It’s so frigging Dean isn’t it.
            As bad as the writing was it did establish her inner conflict every time she appeared. Talk about dropping anvils.
            I have no problem with her being portrayed as a badass hunter either. That’s exactly what she was raised to be.
            As for her deal… John and Dean made bad deals to save a loved one and Sam tried. At least Mary owned up to it and,felt tremendous guilt about her choices. At least Mary set out to hunt to save her boys. It’s a far cry better than either Sam or John did. John became focused on revenge at the expense of his sons. Sam claims his actions are for Dean but really it2for Sam’s ego. He has to prove he is as good as Dean. He needs to believe he is better than Dean
            Only Sam can be the one to save Dean.
            Mary is a frigging saint in comparison.
            In my opinion the character has been a fantastic addition to the cast.
            I fear Dean will be forced to kill her next season because Lucifer is going to use her for revenge.

      2. Ditto. Nope.
        Charlie is my biggest fear now that we have the bizarro, Apocalypse. And she will be more everything than everyone.

        1. I thought she is playing the Evil Professor on the new Mystery Science Theater3000 and won’t be available? Maybe I am wrong. I would watch that show again in a New York minute.

      1. YES. Came home Sunday; no phones but electricity cable and internet up. Phones on Monday. We had a one-hr outage of all this evening but I ‘so’ appreciate what everybody in our area has done.

        Thank you for asking.

  5. Yeesh. They made it sound like a mash up of Supernatural and Petticoat Junction. Terrible.
    Jody’s home for Wayward Girls. Please let Krissy stay on Arrow.

    1. The actress is on ARROW. Did not know that. (I told the story before: we watch SPN live and there was the last 2min of ARROW and it was a scimitar (sword?) fight between Arrow and Ras as Ghul (love that name). They had to take off their shirts and fight in some ceremonial fashion naked from the waist up. With swords. While it was gently gently snowing. Husband said: do NOT try to sneak this one into our rotation of things we watch. I will be ‘unhappy’ if you try to trick me to watch this. Love Husband, said OK, honey. I don’t CARE how good Stephen Arnell looks (hubba hubba) we found what we saw to be a crappy show.)

  6. OK you look at things as ‘putting a show together’ and I appreciate the way you point things out to me; that’s why I come here. Your insights are very informative. Maybe Krissy is an irredeemable character played by a not-good actress. I am saying I would give the show ‘one’ chance in her case. I liked the first 3 Charlie episodes (Pac-Man fever had her ‘start’ to become super-hunter Charlie but it did not bother me so much because she took direction from Dean) but after that it was Nellie-Bar-The-Door she was just eating up her episodes.

    This is for you personally: I am doing (haha) a rewatch and noting ‘canon’ changes or canon ‘fill-ins’ so I want to see if MY understanding of SPN-world: IN THE BEGINNING.

    There was Light and Dark, whom we call God and Amara. God by his nature needed to create the universe, thwarted by Amara who needed nothing more to exist. She ‘permitted’ him to create Archangels Four (don’t if Leviathans were before Archangels or After, but they were before the rest of the angels), whom he used to imprison her in The Empty. Death is an avatar because if there is a beginning there is an end. The other Horsemen are avatars but come later as aspects of human existence.

    1. Chuck wanted to create things. Amara accused him of wanting worshipers. He didn’t exactly deny it very convincingly. He created the archangels first, possibly in secret, out of the primordial stuff that he claimed existed besides the two of them. So, he isn’t creating out of himself. He’s creating out of something else besides himself and Amara.

      He and the archangels imprisoned Amara and Chuck put a seal on her prison that he gave to Lucifer, his favorite. This was the Mark. But Lucifer was corrupted by the Mark (albeit, there are indications he was always a spoiled brat).

      Death is part of Creation. He’s as old as it is, but he doesn’t predate it. We don’t know how old the Horsemen are or how they were created.

      Technically, there’s no real reason to see Death as immortal, let alone as more immortal than Light and Dark. In Revelation, Death is thrown into the Lake of Fire and “killed” along with the Dragon. Also, despite Death’s claims that there is an eternal beginning and an eternal ending, Chuck and Amara’s story indicates that it’s actually cyclical (from one Big Bang to the next), which makes him and Amara eternal, but not Death.

  7. Humans come along; Leviathan Eve births ‘monsters’ and sends Alphas from Purgatory (created to house the Leviathans) to interact with humans, turning some humans into Monsters or simply having her child monsters on earth.

    God demands Angel Oath to Humanity; Lucifer rebels. The understanding I had is that God commanded MICHAEL to cast Lucifer into The Cage and that the Cage was made of Michael’s Grace (can’t remember what half-baked theology I got this from); I have always believed that YED was an Angel who fell with Lucifer, not a ‘super’ demon. Because he fell he had ‘some’ qualities of an angel (holy water resistant for instance) and some of a ‘demon’ (can’t go over iron). But he was a VERY powerful being. He was the Prince of Hell. He was the truest of the true believers in ‘Father’ and worked throughout history to get Father out of The Cage. Three other angels fell with YED, the other Princes of Hell.

    Lillith, first human corrupted into diabolism (haha, good word); Cain, first human murderer, Mark of Cain, guardian of the Mark and sealer of Amara (was the Mark a ‘mark’ on Lucifer’s grace? he would not have had a heavenly ‘body’ so the mark as we came to know it was different on Lucifer) transformed into Knight of Hell. Raised other Knights of Hell.

    Most demons cannot leave hell (Bobby said actually few possessions in Season 1); only Crossroad Demons whose special job is to tempt humans can (in the beginning of the show). Hell’s bureaucrats?

    Preparation for Apocalypse beings with YED’s sacrifice of nuns when he finally contacts Lucifer and gets instructions. Show goes on from there. I believe Apocalypse operated on multiple levels (showing planning): Psy Kids for warriors/leaders perhaps to keep angels off the Sam-track (which was always the plan). But Michael always ‘knew’ what Lucifer was doing and operated on the Sam AND Dean track to create Perfect Vessels.

    Is this understanding ‘provable’ to you? I am not asking if you agree, I am asking if there is any great big fat ‘hole’ I am not seeing. (I think Death was separate form the other Horsemen for instance, he had no fondness for them I think; Plague for instance was quite upset about War and Famine and it was PERSONAL. I can’t think what created them all but watching American Gods I can believe they are sort of TULPAS which are created by human belief/need to ‘personalize’ the ‘bad things’ in life and I don’t know if ‘that’ is something SPN is not doing.)

    Oh and I believe OUR world, is actually the French Mistake world, in which SPN is a SHOW in which JA and JP play characters. The AU is the world of the show and they just created another AU in which Sam and Dean never existed.

    “Meg” (always wondered her true name, but maybe she was a smart-enough cookie to never give out her true name so nobody could summon or ‘spell’ her) and her brother Tom were actually the children of YED, because Azazel was believed to have ‘lain’ with women and fathered children. They both had to go thru demon-inauguration when they died, but they were both with the program absolutely. So more important than regular demons, but not powerful without their daddy at the helm of hell.

  8. CC: I knew somebody based Chrissy on his niece. Thought it was Berens, should’ve looked up and found out it was Glass.

    This week Season 3 is on TNT and I noticed that I am ‘really’ enjoying the Ben Edlund episodes, first I noticed was Hollywood Babylon, then Bad Day at Black Rock and today it was Malleus Malleficarum. He had a really nice touch with the S/D characters.

  9. Watching Yellow Fever (again): the little girl who played Lillith in No Rest for the Wicked and Yellow Fever is just the BEST. What a terrific performance from a child actor. YOWSA!

  10. Once again I forgot Supernatural Thursday until 8:55 and tuned in to see Castiel stab Billie in the back because he can’t live without the Winchesters (Dean!!!!! … he cannot bear to see Dean in pain. Stop with the profound Not bond gibberish).
    Oh yes. Hammer in the there will be cosmic consequences and never follow up on this you hack.
    Then they follow with an entire episode of obsessive angel love which the frigging parallel to Cas and Dean.
    So. Very. Tone deaf.
    Some angels are cray cray and go after your family to make you hurt the way they hurt. Lucifer is so going to use Mary to hurt them denim clad nightmares. I am never going to stop banging this drum.
    Please come back Jeremy Carver.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *