Supernatural --"Who We Are" -- SN1222a_0108.jpg -- Pictured (L-R): Samantha Smith as Mary Winchester and Jensen Ackles as Dean -- Photo: Diyah Pera/The CW -- © 2017 The CW Network, LLC. All Rights Reserved

The Official “Who We Are/All Along the Watchtower” (12.22-12.23 – Season Finale) Live Recap Thread


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Recap of recent events and a mention of Walt and Roy.

Cut to Now, with Mary killing her way through a list of people to get to Jody.

In the Bunker, Dean suggests murdering the Twat to save air. I’m all for it, but she claims she’s the only one who can undo Mary’s deus ex machina conditioning. They then try searching through the lore (on Sam’s suggestion) and Sam finds a spell that requires virgin’s blood (they have to purify their blood, since no one is a virgin), but it doesn’t work because Ketch put a dampening spell on the Bunker.

On the second day, Dean suggests breaking out, but the walls are too strong. Sam is for giving up and mopes about having been stupid about the LoL. Little late, there, Sam. Sam says he “followed because it was easier than leading.”

Dean’s not for giving up. Annnnd, Genius Dean gets an idea.

He’s gonna use the grenade launcher. The Twat thinks it’s stupid. Well, sure, but desperate times….

Dean fires in the hole.

It’s still dark. Sam looks for Dean, but can’t breathe. And then, the lights turn on. And the air comes back. Dean enters the Bunker, wounded but alive.

So, Mary shows up at Jody’s. The Brothers go through the dead and then rush to Jody’s house. Jody and Alex have her tied up in a chair.

Dean gets all the booze he needs, while Mary digs in the knife. They bring in the Twat, who admits she lied. Mary’s gone. Dean is going to take her out into the cornfield (okay, Jody’s backyard) and the Twat thinks that

Walt and Roy come in and it’s totally anticlimactic. Damn, the writing has sucked this season.

Sam gives a Big Speech about fighting back. He’s going to be a leader now because apparently, these writers can’t even allow Dean that.

Sam wants Dean to come along, saying Dean is better than any ten Hunters. Dean pleads being wounded and that Sam is “ready.” But Sam senses Dean has an ulterior motive. Dean admits he’s going to try to save Mary. They hug.

Jody has a moving moment with Alex, whom she’s sending out of the fight. Jody is going with Sam.

At the LoL Quonset Hut, Henchbitchstress is marshaling the forces of about a handful of LoL to attack … all of America. I facepalm. Really hard.

Ketch asks a redshirt tech to locate and track Mary. He’s a little horrified to discover she’s back at the Bunker. For many reasons.

Dean doesn’t trust the Twat, but she claims all she wants is a “head-start” to go see her son again. I’m sure hoping this is meant to make her a good guy, so we’ll “feel bad” when Ketch or somebody kills her. Because I sure don’t want her to make it out of this episode alive.

Anyhoo, Dean goes into the dreamworld with his mother. Mary is tending to Baby!Sam (of course she is) and feeding Toddler!Dean. It’s a totally different house layout from the Pilot teaser, where Sam had his own room. Really, show? You were too lazy even to recreate that?

Dean tries to talk to Dream!Mary, but she ignores him.

Sam and the other Hunters storm the LoL – in broad daylight, ’cause that’s smart. They start cold-bloodedly taking out the LoL. You know, the human LoL.

I like the new blonde Hunter. I don’t expect her to make it, but I’ll hope, anyway.

Inside, Henchbitchstress in her matching two-piece and pearls, belatedly and over-confidently orders a counterattack. But the Hunters are already inside.

Dean realizes his mother is intentionally choosing to stay in her dreamworld. As she tells Dream!Dean she says she won’t let anything happen to him, Dean says the words fans have been waiting for all season: “I hate you.”

Dean pours out his anger and resentment about the deal she made. He talks about his abandonment and how he got parentified. How Mary’s promise never came true.

Do you think Jensen is selling this? Of course he is.

Annoyingly, Dean still kinda makes the pain All About Sam, but at least he talks about his own pain first. He repeats that he hates Mary. He says he also loves her. Obviously, he’s very confused. He says he can’t help but love her because she’s his mother. He admits he made deals, too (I think that hurts her the most), and that he forgives her. While crying. He insists they can start over, but she has to fight back (clearly, someone watched the season finale of The Exorcist). He says he needs her to “see me.”

Finally, she turns around and looks at him. She recognizes him.

Back in the Bunker, the Twat is trying to escape. Of course. But it’s too late. Dean is yanked of the dreamworld – by Ketch.

The Twat’s already dead. Dammit, I wanted to see that!

Chez LoL, Walt and Roy are getting killed and Sam is confronting Henchbitchstress. Who fleas into a locked

In the Bunker, Ketch is beating up Dean because Dean’s still got that bum leg.

But Dean’s got some moves left. After all, he survived Purgatory. He does some serious damage to Ketch.

Dean: “When you left us alone in the Bunker? Man, I knew you were psycho, but I didn’t think you were stupid.”

Ketch decides to cheat a little further and pulls a gun. But he gets shot first. By Mary. Dean goes to her, kicking Ketch’s gun out of the way.

Ketch [to Mary]: “I knew you were a killer. You both are.”
Dean: “You’re right.” Mary shoots Ketch.

Henchbitchstress tries to get someone from LoL Central to get her out, but they ignore her. The Hunters blast their way in and Henchbitchstress tries to talk her way out by telling Sam (she mistakes him for Dean, I kid you not) Lucifer got out and Crowley’s dead. LoL Central try to back her up. Sam shoots out the LoL commlink. Jody shoots Henchbitchstress. Yay, Jody.

Sam & Co. blow up the LoL Quonset Hut. Well, there’s a kind of satisfaction to blowing the shit out of a storyline that shouldn’t have happened in the first place. I’ll give them that.

Dean finds some mega-pain pills (so he’ll be stoned for the rest of the finale). Mary feels really guilty and apologizes to Dean for being a cold, distant bitch. She says she couldn’t face what she’d done to her sons.

Dean tells her her deal didn’t make them “who we are.” They made themselves heroes who “save the world.”

Mary fears Sam will hate her, but Sam returns at that moment. Group hug. Credits.

So, that ends 12.22.

12.21 doesn’t start too well.

So, we get a recap to “Carry On, Wayward Son” of the season so far. It wasn’t very good.

Cut to Castiel and Kelly at a pretty mountain lake. Kelly is trying to build a Swedish crib and mourning that she will never see her child’s face.

Is anybody else mightily offended by this whole woman-as-walking-womb storyline?

Oh, and in case the misogyny wasn’t high enough, when TFW try to contact Rowena, they get Lucifer, who just incinerated her. Because apparently, she wasn’t worth an onscreen death.

To add insult to injury, Crowley’s “rat” resurrects his usual body in a parody of Dean’s resurrection in “Lazarus Rising.”

TFW bemoans about how the writing won’t let them kill Lucifer or send him back to Hell.

Some ball of light is stalking Castiel and Kelly. In case anybody cares. Castiel finds it as a line of light on the beach. When he touches it, he’s transported to a dark place, where a monster attacks him. Somebody shoots the monsters. Castiel recognizes the person and says, “You?”

Trying not to get excited but PLEASE LET IT BE MICHAEL.

More offensive crap with Kelly talking to the naphil, calling him Jack. Show, she’s got a vicious monsters inside her, not cancer.

Crowley shows up and gets punched by Dean. Dean’s going to kill him, and Mary’s on board, but Sam suggests they find out what Crowley knows, first.

Crowley tells them how he escaped inside a rat. They tell him Rowena’s dead. He admits he wanted to keep Lucifer as his personal nuke (because that worked so well with Demon!Dean).

Sam asks why he’s back in the Bunker. Crowley admits they always come out on top, so he’s throwing in with the winning team. Crowley offers to make it worth their while. He’ll seal the gates of Hell.

Back to Kelly wondering where Castiel is. He’s kinda busy, dummy.

Castiel doesn’t tell her where he was. She says her contractions are starting. Castiel goes on a long, boring thing about a doula course he took.

Meanwhile, TFW is heading out to find Lucifer and Dean leaves Crowley Spork-spiked to a table.

Castiel goes to look out the window at the glowing line of light. Kelly thanks him for helping her (pretty sure that’s because he’s brainwashed).

Outside, we get another look at the light.

Recurring The Originals promo for tomorrow night’s ep that reminds how much worse Supernatural could still be.

Kelly asks what vision Castiel had when he joined up with her and he confirms the show is completely ripping off the Jasmine storyline from Angel.

The lights flicker and he goes downstairs. TFW is there. They tell him Lucifer is out and they’re there to help, at least for now.

Dean groans about his knee. An exasperated Castiel heals him. Sam finds the line of light outside.

Castiel says it’s a “tear in space and time.” He calls it an “alternate reality.” Sam and Dean talk about “The French Mistake.”

It’s a manifestation of the child’s power. The Brothers insist on going there with Castiel.

He says it’s an alternate reality of Heaven and Hell fighting forever. He says a “friend” brought him up to speed.

I foresee a whole lot of retconning to get the writers out of the corner they wrote themselves into.

Castiel says he has faith the Naphil won’t hurt anyone. Dean calls Castiel a “dumbass.” Because Castiel is.

In the other world, they meet a Bizarro!Bobby. I so wish I were joking.

Mary gets stuck helping Kelly, while the Brothers find out the alt-world is one where Mary never made a deal to save John (and continued hunting) and the Brothers were never born. So, they never saved the world.

Bobby kills angels for fun, but sensed Castiel was different. Oh, and Rufus is alive.

C’mon, Dean, angel-killing bullets are not new on your world.

Kelly asks Mary if she’d die for her boys the way she will die for “Jack.” Barf. So much barf.

Crowley shows up.

Damn, we could have gotten a final Rowena scene in half the time this freakin’ baby is taking to get born. So dull.

Castiel comes in to talk to Kelly. He seems to be having second thoughts.

Downstairs, the Brothers are gearing up. What happened to all those Hunters that survived from last episode?

Dean talks about TFW and rather reluctantly includes Crowley.

Lucifer shows up. Finally. Took him long enough.

Sam warns Lucifer that Chuck will show up. Lucifer begs to differ. Dean contemptuously asks if Lucifer really intends to “smash all His toys?”

Castiel attacks Lucifer and gets tossed aside. The Brothers flee. Lucifer, like a moron (has he learned nothing?) pursues and finds them going into the rift.

Lucifer likes the new world he arrives in.

Sam tells Lucifer this is the world he wants.

Sam scampers off as Dean lights him up with angel-killing bullets. Dean gets his ass kicked as Sam and Crowley make a spell to trap Lucifer there.

Crowley says they need one more “ingredient – a life.”

Crowley comes out and challenges Lucifer. Sam grabs Dean and gets him back to the rift.

So, are we gonna lose Crowley, after all?

Crowley pulls out an angel blade and stabs himself.

Yep, looks like we’re losing Crowley. Castiel appears for no damned, good reason and attacks Lucifer. Sam drags Dean back through the rift as it closes.

Oh, and the baby is born.

Hmm, diving movie that demonizes sharks. Not-yay.

Castiel stabs Lucifer and comes back through the rift, but then gets stabbed. Lucifer comes through and it was all for nothing.

Just about certain at this point we’re getting a magic reset plot. They’re not gonna kill off this many fan favorites for real.

Mary beats up Lucifer with the magic brass knuckles. He drops his sword, but drags her through the rift.

Oh, and the boring-ass baby is being born. Sam runs inside. Dean mourns over Castiel and looks up at the sky.

Inside the house, Kelly’s dead (yeah, I know. Nobody cares). Sam sees burning baby footprints and follows them into the nursery.

He sees he Naphil. It looks like Lucifer and has glowing eyes.

And that’s the really annoying cliffhanger on which we are left.

I’ll also be simul-recapping on Wayward Children.

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84 thoughts on “The Official “Who We Are/All Along the Watchtower” (12.22-12.23 – Season Finale) Live Recap Thread”

  1. Well, Dean ‘did’ get them out of the Bunker ‘after’ Sam had given up.

    That’s pretty in tune for Dean IMO.

  2. Dean should have given the rallying speech although it was refreshing for Sam to own up to his mistake and not shift any blame onto Dean.

    I thought Dean not only surviving the blast at such close quarters but getting outside to turn on the air before Sam could even look for him is suspicious …
    Is it possible he’s Dean!incognito-Michael.

    I can’t shake the feeling that Dean is really off.

    I can’t shake the feeling that someone very “Winchester ” is dying.

  3. Dean, Mary and Ketch made this episode. Ketch’s was so jealous of Dean then admired him because he saw the killer just like he,saw the killer in Mary.

    The lol standoff was awful. So badly done.
    We recently saw Train to Busan. That’s how you film action. Blech

  4. I am guessing Cas went to the future in the naphilrift and saw the naphilrift grown. Terrible looking world… right out of Dollhouse.

  5. Oh of course cas ran into Bobby in the pseudo Purgatory END verse. I will scream if they use the Naphil for a clean slate. It ducked when Angel did it and Dabbler ain’t nearly as deft as Whedon and company.

  6. And Crowley dies. Bad steal from Walking Dead. Hate to lose him in a bad episode.
    HE to lose Cas even more
    And Dabb steals yet another scene/idea from Angel , as well as lifting stuff from Evangelical Jesus freaks and Species.
    Dabb you suck bigly.

    1. Gotta say, that was pretty bad. Also, while I can see the show killing off one fan favorite like Rowena permanently and exiling Lucifer for good (if they had the brass), I don’t see them killing off Rowena, Crowley *and* Castiel in one episode and expecting that to stick.

      As for Mary, she’s not dead, so she’s good for next season.

      1. Yes. Mary and,Lucy in whatever passes for Purgatory these days with the brothers dealing with the infernal child, grief and trying to find Mary.
        I still think we could see Dean!Michael and even Mary! Lucifer .
        I imagine that the kid resurrects Cas because he needs him or Cas is still on his auto resurrection loop. Or they introduce bizarro Cas.
        Crowley has a failsafe or they introduce bizzarro Crowley.
        I don’t see a way out of here said the joker to the thief… pretty apt.
        The boys will go to the bizzarro Apocalypse somehow and voila reboot.
        Sorry smelly orange fatass of an episode.

        1. Perhaps bizzarro Rowena is Dean’s type and we can enjoy the sizzle.
          And Bobby and Gabriel and Raphael… Yada Yada Yada.

  7. I have hopes for Castiel and Crowley. Even for Rowena.
    I wonder how evil the nephilim will be, or if it will be evil at all.

    Maybe it could revive some of the dead characters.

    1. Burning footprints, scorched Bible, glowing eyes, and they’re ripping off the “no free will” Jasmine storyline.

      The Naphil will tots be EVOL.

  8. Why didn’t Castiel do an angelic C-section and then heal Kelly (or not). It would have saved time and trouble. Then we wouldn’t have had to watch that.

    If Crowley’s spell required a life, how does it work that he’s the one that dies. Aren’t demons already dead?

    Damn I’m going to miss Rowena. Maybe they’ll use that favor they owe her to revive her, but I doubt it.

    1. No way this sticks, so I wouldn’t miss Rowena quite yet.

      I can’t even with anybody, let alone Castiel, letting Kelly go to term. As far as I can tell, the Naphil needed to sacrifice his mother’s life to be born. They did that with Amara and she turned out not to be evil. No way the Naphil is good.

        1. It wasn’t PMS. She had a totally legit reason for being pissed off at Chuck and wanting revenge. And she also had a totally legit reason for not giving two hoots about his creation. In the grand scheme of things, she was a lot nicer to humans during her learning process than she could have been.

          The Naphil, on the other hand, is the child of a spoiled rotten father and a mother he literally treated like a container. Kelly was the caterpillar to his larval wasp. No way he’ll end up good.

          1. I was being tongue in cheek. Yes she was full of righteous anger and justified. However Chuck and Lucy made light of her grievances and chalked it up to “wimmen”.

      1. And maybe Rowena is alive in the rift world? Hey, it could work.

        I don’t care, Castiel is not ‘dead’ dead. Nope.

        1. Really, guys, at least some of these deaths are fake-outs. There’s no way the network signed off on Dabb and Singer making that permanent.

          1. The bizarro Apocalypse negates any and all deaths ever except for John who died there too.
            We know both Rowena and Crowley are capable of having get out of death mojo. And Cas apparently resurrects for Dean. Add to that that they all probable have bizzarro Apocalypse versions. We will see these characters again.

  9. I’m not thrilled with the first episode, but I can live with it. It would have been nice to see Dean get more action, as they’ve been defanging him all season. Though it was fun to see him get all perky about the grenade launcher. And I’m glad Jody got the final kill.

    Sadly, Dean making his hate speech to Mary mostly about Sam’s suffering is in character. But no acknowledgement at all about his own time in hell? Really?

    And that last episode made no sense.

    1. He did start off with his own parentalization. And he did finish up with his deal. So, I think she got the gist.

      He still apparently hasn’t “shared” about being raised by angels, though.

      1. I chalk it up to following the recipe. Add one Dean monologue punctuated with one perfect tear. Mix with a generous dollop of Sam pimping. Throw in same Dirty Dozen mayhem. Give Pellegrino ample opportunity to chew scenery. Sprinkle with Crowley and Cas. One half baked script.

  10. I confess I had thought a reboot of sorts was the only way forward hence my obsessive acknowledgement of every Apocalypse reference this season as well as subtextual clues of the board shifting slightly. Mary walking in Sam’s steps even if she is far more like Dean. Cas choosing heaven. Crowley choosing TFW (Dean) over Hello. Bad hunters. Powerful Child. Lucifer rising. It all felt very familiar yet so off.
    I cannot see Dabb doing anything great with this. He bloody wasted an entire season.

    1. And he is just creating a feeble pastiche of stolen ideas, tropes and images in lieu ofor actually writing a good story. The entire season stole from the better seasons of Supernatural. Yeesh the Angel rip-offs were so glaring. Making it a boy doesn’t cover up the theft and that reveal was such a Species rip-off.
      The band of dirty rough scoundrels taking on an insurmountable for in their heavily armed headquarters is straight out of WW2 genre….
      Yersh.

  11. I think Walt was the guy at the end who set the explosives to get to Hess.

    I ‘think’ Roy got it on the stairs.

    Also, Sam was willing to let it go, but Dean just side-eyed Sam and said nothing when Roy and Walt arrived at Jodi’s.

    1. Regarding Walt and Roy, one of them gets it in the hallway against the two machine-gun guards. The other one got his neck snapped by Henchbitchstress and flung off the stairs onto a glass table.

      Jerry (a new Hunter we met just this episode) is the one who sets the explosives.

      1. Sorry, Roy bought it in the hallway, but it was Jerry who got killed on the stairs. For some reason, the show’s writers were okay with the guy who did all the shooting–Walt–actually surviving and having something important to do. Which, personally, I think sucks and reflects a very unpleasant pattern in this current writing crew of keeping assholes around far too long, while killing off likeable characters, or trying to turn an asshole likeable simply for the purposes of killing them. Which strikes me as fanboy nihilism at its not-finest.

      2. Thank you. To me Walt (now) had a beard and the guy who set the explosives was bearded. Thank you for telling me how it all broke down.

      1. Yes. That’s generally true of an 8pm vs 9pm show because the 8pm show has an extra hour to be watched the same night. But it could also be a sign that not everyone was into the season finale.

  12. Every once in a while I have posted interesting SPN ‘gen’ stories.

    This business with ApocoEarth is kinda sorta like my idea. I had an idea that Chuck comes back and talks to Dean and says he needs him to ‘fix’ something. He sends him to Walking Dead World in which it turns out that the zombie virus is the Croatoan virus so Dean has to ‘fix’ it. When he gets to Walking Dead World (just in time to stop Negan who is a demon named Dever and NOT in John Winchester but Dean thinks it is at first) he finds that while the things ‘he’ knows what to do by magick works but nobody else (not even the demons) knows about holy water and devils’ traps. And Dean is then part of the Walking Dead world. I have not decided if we get Jimmy!Castiel sent over too or when Dean prays to Shield of God he gets different Castiel. Like I said I am curious about ApocoEarth. Bobby said he was a Hunter who hunted with Mary so he should know ‘lore’ and so this is not an ‘unmagical world’ (like French Mistake Earth).

    I can see “Jack” getting up and ‘healing’ his mom and dad. (I liked Kelly a lot more than you did; she was obviously being affected by baby Jack to save him.) It also seems to me that Dean will probably want to burn both Jimmy!Castiel and Kelly and Jack bringing them back. From the CW upfronts ‘Mischa Collins’ is listed as a principle for Season 13 (as well as Mark Pellegrino) but no Mark Shepherd. Hey, they did not have Samantha Smith!

    I will be curious if they go to ApocoEarth to fix it.

    I was also confused why they went back to the Bunker, it seems that is still going to be their base. I like the Bunker so ok by me.

    1. Sorry, you can’t get me to love Kelly Kline. She was a boring, whiny character who didn’t improve with more screentime (her storyline was actually pacing-dragging screentime hog) and her entire “dilemma” was offensive in the extreme.

      Next time the show wants to do a Walking Womb storyline, maybe it should cast better.

      Samantha Smith isn’t a recurring regular, so the Upfronts don’t really mean much. Not like they were going to spoil the season finale by not listing Collins and Shepherd.

      1. Castiel gets resurrected typically so it’s no surprise that he would be back. And it could be in flashbacks for a while to throw us off
        Crowley literally sacrificed himself after he already appeared to die, a riff on TWD’s Glen fiasco. Although Crowley does put himself out there for Dean one suspects he does this because he does have a plan B/get out of jail card in his pocket. If anyone could figure out how to off themselves as part of a blood sacrifice and still get to carry on it would be Crowley. He could have forced the tailor to do it and Crowley smoked out and will either smoke back or change meatsuits. Or magic. Or bizzarro Crowley.

        I would be sad to lose our Crowley because of Drowley and I would be said to lose Shephard because he finds gold continually despite the writing.

        I wouldn’t be surprised if he was keen to change meatshits because the tailor’s body was compromised by the lol spell reversal from episode 21. For all we know bizzarro tailor has not been possessed yet. We could get two Crowley’s played by different actors.

        Castiel pretty much has to be Misha. We could get bizarro Jimmy Novak because Cas never was called to earth to save Dean from He’ll in bizarro Apocalypse. Apparently bizarro Mary never made the deal with Azazel.

        On the surface I see some brilliance in the set-up of the bizarro Apocalypse in which Mary let John die. That said I feel John would fuck it up and I half expect Carver will be back because this move in and of itself is a brilliant reboot to explore characters and relationships and because the world was better because of Mary’s deal, this whole set-up allows the family to heal in the end.
        It just screams Carver.
        I think we are so getting Dean!Michael and Mary!Lucifer.

        1. I thought Crowley was in the body of a ‘moderately successful’ book editor or something? Fergus MACLEOD was a tailor, right; who wanted a couple more inches for his willy?

        2. What I found ‘really’ interesting about Apoca!Mary ‘not’ taking the Deal to save Apoca!John was it showed that for the world to be save, MARY’S family ‘had’ to be cursed. Remember in The Song Remains the Same that Dean told Mary to leave John; never being born was the price of ‘saving’ the world AND better than the curse they were living under. So ‘now’ we find out that they ‘had’ to be born, otherwise the demons and angels would just lay waste to the earth.

          Hard to figure why Apoca!Bobby said angels were wearing necklaces of baby ears though. They would not ‘care’ about human casualties, but I don’t think they would seek them out.

          Does the next season start in early October again? So it’s about 5-1/2 months wait?

          1. That struck me as well Evavie. Perhaps it is because Mary took the deal and saved John in the name of love. Anyhow this deal making to saved loved ones seems to be wired into the Campbell and Winchester DNA.

            Also the alternate Apocalypse is engineered to show the Winchesters that they matter and what they do matters. It’s endgame stuff for them to finally realized this.

            Pretty sure the killer angels with baby ears neck adornment business comes from a short story from an end of the world anthology that came out around the Millennium. I am pretty sure I read one with angels flying around acting monstrous and wearing necklaces of ears. Borderlands is the title if I recall correctly. I don’t know if the idea originated somewhere else.

      2. Only Collins and Pelegrino I thought were mentioned in the upfronts (I thought).

        You’re right, they did not mention Smith.

        Paula, do you know how they handled the ‘upfronts’ from Season 7 in which Gamble killed Castiel and SHE meant him to be dead but there was such a blowback ‘somebody’ ordered him brought back?

        1. As I recall, they lied about killing him off, so fans were shocked when it happened.

          If they don’t bring back Mary, I’m going to be pissed. I get that she’s been a victim of bad writing, but so have Castiel and Crowley, and as much as I love Castiel, she’s far more of a core character. The least they can do is try to fix the writing for her before fridging her again.

      3. This is one of the many reasons I like reading your work here: I see the show and I don’t really try to ‘see’ how people work.

        I hate Miss Marvelous characters (I did not like Jo or Bela “at their introductions” because they were just TOO MUCH) but I found Kelly a decent character for a walking womb. I don’t think Kelly’s reaction to being pregnant and not getting an abortion for a literal child of Satan too problematical; for me from the start she was ‘affected’ by the baby and even if she was making stupid decisions it was also that she was ‘pushed’ to protect “Jack.” Don’t blame her for that. ALSO she did not get a Miss Marvelous introduction so I could kind of take her as she was ‘given.’ It kind of moved me that she faced her death so calmly, believing totally that she was doing the right thing.

        Anyway, what I meant re YOU is that you can see how a character is a character or just a talking trope or something. I don’t have your background and don’t see it that way but at least I can understand your reasons for why you think the character was a fail.

    2. They have to go to bizarro Apocalypse because they have to rescue Mary. How can you ask that question. Dean won’t let Mary stay there alone. Sam will whine of course and say she is probably dead even after seeing her trounce Lucifer without fear.
      She is very fragile and I think she may succumb mentally to Lucifer because her psyche is wounded.
      As we saw with Nick and Vince. Lucifer is a manipulative genius at securing his meatsuit.

  13. I hate to say this but I think they could spend next season going back and forth between the dimensions and have the Winchesters crossover in the finale and Supernatural Apocalypse is the spinoff with a revolving cast that gives the J’s a break. They want an easier schedule yet any spinoff without them would tank.

    1. Because the idjits keep writing off great characters.
      I hope we see Ellen, Jordan and Ash and the roadhouse, Uriel and Zachariah and Pamela, and the gay couple.

          1. Bizarro!Supernatural looks far too expensive for them to maintain a storyline in for long, especially with Bob “I hated Purgatory” Singer on board.

            I wouldn’t get too attached to that world.

  14. It still means pretty much anyone except for John would be back if they travel through a rift.
    Eh. Just a lot of smoke and a few derelict bits here and there. Necklaces made from baby ears would be pretty cheap as well.

    1. The show straight-up said back in season five that they couldn’t have done “The End” without getting access to The Watchmen set (now long since torn down) and it was strongly hinted that Purgatory was not a cheap set. Ergo, it’s an expensive set to do.

      1. Purgatory was filmed in an actual forest (it might have been in Stanley Park, I don’t remember for sure. They took us there on one of the Van Con location tours.) I think the only thing they added was the filter to make it look “otherworldly.”

        But yeah, Jerry tweeted a photo of the AU set they built for the finale. Jared said they filmed a couple of scenes for S13; maybe it was on that set before they broke it down. I’m guessing if Dabb decides to do AU worlds, they’re going to end up looking a lot like Vancouver, lol.

        1. Most of the forest scenes are filmed in Stanley Park. Whatever ones that aren’t are probably filmed in North Vancouver.

          However, location shooting is expensive and time-consuming. Also, subject to delays. You’re renting the site, which costs money and limits your time. Any action requires a lot of extra equipment that you have to transport there and set up, then completely break back down very quickly. Everything is subject to weather. And the lighting is hugely bright and elaborate.

          Plus, Supernatural is, by far, not the only project filming in Vancouver and there’s a lot of competition over the nicer sites–like Stanley Park. Which also jacks up the price.

          I will reiterate my perennial caution that any specific spoilers about storyline that come before Comic-Con almost never pan out. The writers are only just now banging away at the general mytharc for the season. A lot’s going to change in the writers room between now and when filming starts in early July. And then again from Comic-Con until the show premieres its new season.

          A couple of people (not just Padalecki, but I think also Ackles and Jim Michaels) have said they filmed some scenes during this season’s production for season 13. That would indicate even more that the AU set won’t be around for long.

          That, the Scooby-Doo crossover, that Ackles will direct again (which means we’ll probably once more see episode three filmed first in production), and that the show will stay in its 8pm slot leading out to Arrow, are about all we know for certain at the moment about season 13. Well, that and it’s not planned to be the final season.

          Since it’s paired up with Arrow and doing well in the ratings, we can also assume the show will get another 23-episode order for season 13.

      2. I thought Purgatory was just the city park for Vancouver?

        Anyway, it was a lot of trees with characters running and chasing each other; canNOT see how that was expensive.

        1. Arrow and Flash tend to use the same sets and SPN can’t use them because 1. they don’t correspond with “our” world and 2. Arrow and Flash are using them. Notice how much of their (and Gotham’s) scenes are filmed inside in relatively dim lighting or at night? Babylon 5 did that all the time to hide the cheapness of the sets.

          LoT flits around a lot with different scenes. This is why it’s much more expensive, gets fewer episodes per season, and isn’t liable to last even a third as long as SPN. I like LoT, but I think the only reason it’s still around is to provide a good launch point for the DC crossovers, and to keep around certain actors and characters.

    1. Gotham has the same, highly elaborate sets it began with, uses a lot of CGI, is on FOX, and has a much bigger budget.

  15. I don’t know where to look, but I am curious if TNT gets good ratings for Supernatural on weekdays.

    What brought this up is ‘this’ week they are showing 5 episodes on four days and 3 episodes on 1 day.

    I have been waiting for the repeat of Season 11 and it begins later this week and I noticed ‘how many’ episodes they are showing. It appears Castle is gone in the afternoon and sometimes Bones doesn’t show either, but Supernatural is just toddling along. Amazing.

    1. I’m not sure, either. Sites like TV by the Numbers have regular cable ratings now, but they tend to have only the top 100 ratings and SPN’s repeats no longer get up there with all the original content going on.

      TNT is pretty ruthless about its syndication ratings, though. It wastes no time relegating even a new syndicated show to the wee hours if that show underperforms. So, if Supernatural is getting more episodes, not less (23 is an increase on 20), that means it’s doing better compared to the other shows on the TNT slate, including the old-time warhorses like Bones and Castle.

      I don’t think people realize how popular Supernatural really is. Yes, it’s on a smaller main network, but those new episodes continue to get watched over and over and over again all of the world. It’s got to be making a ton of money.

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