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The Official The British Invasion (12.17) Recap Discussion Thread

Recap of Nickifer, the Demon Baby Mama Drama, the LoL, and Mary.

Cut to Now (well, Oxbridgeish in 1987). Boring and stupid English stereotypes abound as two boys (Mick and Retch, I gather) head to a meeting at “Kendricks” with a classic stereotypically bitchy British Headmistress. Ugh. So. Much. Ugh.

So, guess it’s just Retch (sorry, turns out to be Mitch, having a dream), then, since she leaves them alone in a fight to the death. He kills his best friend.

Cue title credits and the Brothers are on the road, while they talk to Eileen about tracking down Kelly (the Devil’s Baby Mama). She’s off to track them some more.

Back at the Bunker, Sam wants Dean to call Crowley. Dean doesn’t want to. They find Mick there, who claims the Bunker is “our house” and the key opens every Bunker in the world. Ugh. So. Much. Hate. This episode is gonna be tough to sit through.

Turns out Mick didn’t know about Kelly and Lucifer’s Nephilim child. So, official confirmation that the LoL are WAY out of their league.

So, the Brothers fill him in (after Dean without apology says they never mentioned it before because “need to know”) and Mick freaks out. A very insulting discussion amongst men about abortion and women’s choice and how the Power of Motherly Wuv prevented Kelly from aborting the Ugly-Ass Plot Point.

Cut to Dagon talking to Lucifer about his baby and the “package” (i.e., moronic Kelly). Dagon says Kelly will “last long enough” to give birth.

Cut to Mick having more of a nightmare about killing his buddy (who really did not want to die). He’s awakened by Headbitchstress from the dream. She’s part of the leadership and guess what? They’re freaking out over the Nephilim sitch. She insists Mick get the Winchesters on board right now or kill them
[cue mocking laughter from the audience].

So, Kelly is having misgivings about her pregnancy. She insists Dagon take her to a doctor. Dagon mind-whammies the doc into saying everything is normal, even though it’s not. He still gets killed by a demon later on.

At the Bunker, Dean is hungover because Mitch allegedly could drink him and Sam under the table (SO. MUCH. HATE). Mitch mentions that Mary is with Retch (cue an unnecessary scene between those two in which no new territory is mined).

At the LoL Bunker, Mitch gets a visit from Henchbitchtress’s lap dog, a smarmy little public school stereotype.

Chez Crowley, Lucifer is submitting to Crowley as a new tactic and still claiming to be the eldest brother. SHOW, GET IT STRAIGHT. MICHAEL IS THE OLDEST. ALWAYS HAS BEEN.

Halfway through the ep and so far, *nothing* has happened but set-up.

So, Dean is leaving voice messages on Castiel’s phone and the Brothers are meeting with Eileen. She caught up with the demon who killed Kelly’s doc, killed him with an angel blade and got Dagon’s number.

As much as I love Eileen, remember when demons had TK and powers and stuff?

Back to Crowley, who is haranguing the troops about their loyalty to Lucifer. He unwisely brings Lucifer in to submit to him. Apparently, Crowley is unaware that Lucifer is in communion with Dagon and just biding his time.

Lucifer immediately starts undermining Crowley (with his back to Crowley) by winking and leering and sneering and glowing-eyes-y at the demons.

Ugh, so much stupid in this episode. And *still*, nothing has happened but set-up.

Kelly is sending Dagon on errands when she gets a call from Sam, who pretends to be her (dead) doctor’s assistant. Eileen gives him a thumbs-up and Mitch shows up with Brit Douchenozzle. Eileen very quickly puts him in his place.

Meanwhile, Dean quietly grabs Kelly and drives her to the docks, where the others are waiting.

Douchenozzle starts to brag. Dean puts him in his place.

Kelly gets out and Sam and Dean try to talk Kelly out of being a moron. Kelly thinks she loves the Nephilim. Mick points out (sensibly, for once) that the Nephilim doesn’t give a rat’s ass about its mother.

Dagon shows up in a blast of thunder and lightning, and uses TK. She is also, of course, unaffected by regular bullets. After blasting away the others, she starts to grab Kelly. Eileen gets the gun and shoots at Dagon, but Dagon disappears and Douchenozzle gets shot instead. Works for me.

Mick doesn’t take Douchenozzle’s death well. He wants to shoot Eileen, yelling about the code that, y’know, Americans don’t follow. Dean steps up and takes aim at him. Sam tries to talk Mick down.

I sure hope Mick understands that if he shoots Eileen, Dean’s gonna blow his head off. Right then and there.

As if this episode couldn’t possibly suck enough, Mary has slept with Retch. Who confesses he was thinking he would end up shooting her, instead.

Mary straight-up tells him it was a one-night stand. Retch says he’s not “built for that” and that she isn’t, either. Mary says no, but that her monogamous days are over.

Retch thinks she’s choosing Hunting over Family. Mary begs to differ.

Back Chez Crowley, Lucifer is getting a demon to examine him, presumably so he can lift Crowley’s spells. The demon admits he can’t do that. The only demon who could disarm the “security system” is the one who designed it. Crowley killed him.

Is this demon really dumb enough to believe Lucifer? Oh, wait. How did the rest of the episode go?

Back at the Bunker, Eileen is upset over having killed a human. The Brothers comfort her.

Is this episode over yet? No? Ugh.

So, Kelly finally buys a clue (actually, it’s a gift from Dagon) that she’s not going to survive giving birth to the Nephilim and that nobody cares.

Henchbitchstress shows up with Retch to school Mitch, probably fatally. Toni the Twat’s name is once again spoken in vain. Henchbitchstress monologues delusionally about how “Hunters are dogs” and should “obey.” She wants Eileen tracked down and murdered. She also wants the Winchesters “investigated” and executed “if found guilty.”

Which just goes to show how PLOT STUPID the LoL really are. You send people over the pond without having investigated these guys thoroughly already?! WTF?!, show?

Mitch rebels and gets shot dead by Retch.

Dear God, I am *so* over this LoL storyline at this point.

Back at the Bunker, the Brothers are worrying about Castiel. Eileen has bailed, deciding to go back to Ireland. Which, you know, isn’t right next door to England, or anything.

Oh, she left the Colt. Dean’s cheery joy at getting it back is about the only good thing about this episode.

Back at the LoL Bunker, dumbass Henchbitchstress orders Retch to kill every Hunter in the U.S.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!! Really, show? Come on.

Next week’s promo? We’re back to pagan gods. Some goat dude in the basement.

46 thoughts on “The Official The British Invasion (12.17) Recap Discussion Thread”

  1. Psychologically I don’t think Mick could’ve ‘disobeyed’ LHBIC; he made his bed when he was like 10yo.

    I don’t think Mick could’ve disobeyed.

    I wonder if Ketch will kill Mary? (Well, it would get her and her ‘issues’ off my screen.)

    Why did Eileen run? (I like Eileen and like Sam and her slow-build romance.) Was Mick saying that ‘any’ BMOL who got killed on an operation had to be ‘avenged’ immediately?

    Kelly is going to call Dean, they will find her. I don’t blame Kelly. She was portrayed as very religious the first time we saw her (I think POTUS seduced her in the first place). An Evangelical would have difficulty contemplating an abortion under the scenario the show has put together.

    1. I think that if there’s any scenario where an Evangelical would be pro-abortion, it’s finding out you’re carrying the Son of Satan. Not to mention, she sure was hypocritical about sex before marriage. I’m pretty over Kelly and her “dilemma.”

      The thing is that Mick *did* disobey. He didn’t kill Eileen and then he back-talked to his boss. That’s how he ended up dead.

      I doubt Retch will kill Mary–more likely the other way round. The actor was talking about wrapping his character in 12.20 and Sam Smith is apparently still filming on set. Besides, when Mary gave him that pitying look, I thought, “Oh, so *that’s* where Sam gets it!”

      1. Yeah. I also think Mary will kill Letch. The acting tells me that Mary has been biding her time looking for Intel and Letch gave it after she bedded him; ie. I thought I would be killing you when I met you. She smiled at that rather than flipped out at the idea the lol would kill innocent humans. I hope she has been playing them for fools.

        Poor Mick. Finally being smart enough to recognize the Winchester prowess and goodness, but not smart enought to realize that Letch was there to kill him. He was the best of the lol.

        I really need to see Mary kill Letch. The bedroom scene was revolting. Letch naked in bed was revolting.

        I guess Eileen could be the rallying kill… or the attempt on them.

        They name dropped Michael again and reminded us he is in the cage… hmmm.

        Lucifer will get out. Nephilim may get born. Michael will be the only get out of jail card.

        This was pathetic. How can they not know Michael is the oldest. The entire plot line mirrored him and Dean as the eldest sons doing what they believed dad wanted. Jeesh. Dumbasses. Somebody tweet them before it’s too late.

        1. I will be pissed if they kill off Eileen. She needs to survive this stupid storyline.

          I was perfectly okay with Charlie being sacrificed to the stupid “Let’s remove the MoC” plot, not just because it led to Dean getting medieval on the Stynes but because it rid us of Charlie. Double win. But Eileen is a good character. And this week wasn’t any “Abandon All Hope.”

          I was mildly upset about Mick buying it, but to be honest, I’d really love it if the show just nuked that whole storyline from orbit and we never had to mention them as a living group ever again.

          Also, the whole thing about killing your friend to excel in the academy or whatever made no damned sense in light of MoL characters like Henry, Delphine and the two guys from “Slumber Party,” who clearly had not been through such a trial. Plus, Mick seemed to…eh…soft to have been the stone cold killer stabbing a friend thirty years ago should have made him. Hell, Toni didn’t come across like that kind of person, either.

          Plus, how are they all working together with such loyalty if…y’know…they’re killing each other off as teens? That makes no psychological sense.

          1. There is a ‘western’ called The Warrior’s Way in which a little kid learning kung-fu is given a puppy to raise when he enters the Academy of Assassins or something. After he completes his first year he is told to go further he needs to kill the puppy (now small dog — still a cutie). I think it is analogous to Mick/Timothy; I also think that this kind of mind-game ‘should’ have cemented Mick and/or Yang (character in the movie) for life as a member of the group. BUT in both cases something ‘reached out’ to them.

            I totally agree with previous points that Timothy’s father was probably a legacy too and ‘knew’ what was going on (that the murder was regular practice). Gives me the willies.

          2. That “puppy” story has been around for a while. Think it was supposed to be connected to Special Forces, maybe Green Berets (and is probably total bullshit).

            The thing is that the LoL claim *not* to be a league of assassins. They claim to be showing zero tolerance for monsters in order to protect human lives. It therefore makes *no* sense to have a code where 1. half of their recruits are forced to kill the other half while still children and 2. that they kill any human who kills one of the LoL. One directly contradicts the other. In addition, the only MoL/LoL character who fits this model is Retch and he’s supposed to be unique and uniquely scary.

            So, once again, the Nep Duo have not only managed to contradict everyone else’s canon, but their own within the same damned episode.

          3. Oh I agree. It was as if someone thought a match up of Howard’s and Battle Royale would be cool. It’s not as if we already don’t know that the MOL code is bad. Torturing Sam and Dean was bad. Trying to kill Dean and Cas to stop their rescue was bad. Letch enjoying the kill way too much is bad. Even if Sam is too poorly written to get this, Dean certainly does and Mary must too. The audience gets it too. That line between black and white has been an ongoing theme for years.
            I wonder if Dabb et al. Think fan complaints mean we are too stupid to understand.
            I liked Mick. He was actually a British blue collar who could easily have fit the American hunter scene. It didn’t make sense for hoighty toighty (sp?) LOL to train him at all since he stole from the lol. Surely that was against the code.

            I was also thinking that Henry was a snob however he was hardly an unrepentant killer. He let the nuns live after all. The British would have sent Letch in to torture and kill the lot lest one was still harboring a demon secretly.

            And Delphine would have executed Dean on the spot if she were British.

            There’s something fascist about the BMOL. Something very wrong.

            And there is something very wrong with the writing.

            I don’t think that the writers have a clue as to what makes a good character. I don’t have much hope for Eileen because she’s traumatized and alone at the moment. Also Sam doesn’t seem to return the crush.

      2. I think in Kelly’s case with POTUS it appeared to me that she was not a power-mad type. I put the blame on POTUS for that; it just felt like he talked her into it because they were doing ‘so much’ good. I hope you know what I mean; it’s like the religious people we have screaming about God and Righteousness and then you find out THEY did much the same thing (I remember Henry Hyde and Helen Chenoweth two House members who were spectacularly PRO-impeachment and said, ‘that was a long time ago’ or the ever-popular GOD FORGAVE ‘ME’ when their extra-marital affairs were revealed). Kelly does not read like that to me. She is somebody who I think literally believes SHE can make the baby ‘good’ in some way.

        ALSO I think the baby is somehow muddling her thinking. ALSO when Dagon told her that ‘all’ nephilim mamas die in childbirth (?) I was thinking of archangel baby-mamas not run-of-the-mill angels.

        Crowley having Lucifer act all ‘subservient’ around the other demons was his firs stupid STUPID move. He was smart to ‘lock’ Lucifer in his meatsuit but he ‘has’ to know that as HE Crowley was not really subservient to Lucifer in the same scenario, HE Lucifer would not be either. Crowley just wants to ‘show’ his superiority and that is stupid.

        1. Kelly is a romantic. I actually don’t think she was initially religious herself, but fell in love with the president , who clearly was religious, felt inspired and wanted to have his kid, and went off her contraception . Stupid, but some people are like that. Deciding to continue the pregnancy seems consistent with her personality. Besides, Team Winchester was pressuring her to abort. It is just as important to uphold a woman’s choice to continue a pregnancy as it is her choice to end it.
          What has bothered me most about her character is how snivelling she has been about it. Own your choice. Make preparations. This was actually the first time she seemed to do that. If she had been seeking medical attention all along or even doing some reading, she would have known those were Braxton hicks contractions.

  2. Except for a handful of episdoes, this season has been a hot mess of boring, nonsensical writing. I can’t decide if I’m disappointed or relieved that Dean’s played such a minimal role in it

    1. The sad thing is that the bones of much of it weren’t horrible. Bringing Mary back and having her still be ambivalent about being a Hunter? Bringing in a rival MoL group from Europe who are trying to take over the Bunker and such? Those had promise. But Dabb & Co. wrote them the same way Dabb & Loflin wrote the comics and the Nepotism Duo write anything mytharc-y. I’m not sure what’s going on with the newbies, but they can’t exactly steer the ship.

      And the steering (i.e., the mytharc) is where it really sucks. I mean, come on, how stupid are the LoL? Why are they all offensive Brit stereotypes when the show already does a decent job with Crowley and Rowena and even Eileen? Why are they so misogynistic? Why are the characters so friggin’ stupid? Headbitchstress was bragging about how thorough Toni was when Toni didn’t know a damned thing!

      Also, there simply was no reason to bring Lucifer back. I get that Pellegrino is popular and (apparently) available, but they wrote Lucie out pretty definitively last season. And this whole “Lucifer is the eldest” retcon is stupid and makes no damned sense.

      I miss Carver.

      1. This is going to sound ‘unpleasant’ but I don’t think BL were raised Christian or have any real Christian background. Now maybe people raised Jewish do not have ‘angel-lore’ as being part of their upbringing, but I was taught ‘from a baby’ about the four archangels, that Michael was first, Lucifer second but best-beloved and then Raphael and Gabriel (and that Gabriel was somebody who would get a bee in his bonnet if he was not treated ‘correctly’ or if somebody just asked him a ‘question’ about God’s will). WHY have these two writers continually called Lucifer ‘FIRST BORN’? THIS is just nuts. The ‘whole’ point of the Apocalypse story-line was Michael the Older Loyal to a Fault and Lucifer the Younger who was too Proud being heavenly palimpsets for Dean and Sam. I mean we had FIVE seasons of the build-up. And ‘now’ they are writing Lucifer the Elder? WHY? It makes no sense. It could so easily be fixed. JUST NEVER SAY IT. (I could rag on this all day in between bouts of trying to figure out ‘why’ they do this. It is not necessary to the plot at all. It’s like in THIS they are following CANON because a few years ago they said Lucifer was First-Born.)

          1. I ‘know’ this is why I rag on this so much. The ‘one’ thing that was agreed on in ‘angel lore’ from Judaism and Christianity was the ‘age order’ of the Archangels. It was always Michael, Lucifer, Raphael then Gabriel. ALWAYS.

            I knew I would express this badly. OK the word I should have used was UNCHURCHED. Because this is just one of the things writers who are inculcated in our culture should just KNOW.

            An example: in the beginning we were introduced to Chuck the Prophet who was later revealed as Chuck the God. IF the show had wanted to go someplace else and have Mrs God not Mr God and had Castiel just gravel voice, Your bible gets much wrong. Well, OK by me. The show can change ‘the canon’ of reality anytime they want to. BUT if you buy-in to the J-C world-view you can’t do things like this. Most of the time people bring up ‘canon’ re this show and I don’t see the complaint; like the business with the werewolf cure last week. The new werewolf cure was just a further bit of lore from what John had, which was already said to be “dad heard” which called for a dead sire, but did not know about the blood and other ingredients. It ‘worked’ for me. But one time I hear Lucifer the First- Born (and it is not NECESSARY to have Lucifer as First-Born for any part of Lucifer’s story line) I swear I will search google somehow, find Robert Singer’s phone number and SCREAM into the phone.

            Whew! I’ll take my meds now.

      2. I am convinced Carver was ghost editing everyone else. Berens and Dabb did their best work under him. Dabb with Reichenbach, probably heavily reworked by Carver. Everything Berens wrote under Carver was golden. Please please come back Jeremy.

    1. About the only redeeming part of that was that at least poor Sam Smith wasn’t the one who had to take her clothes off for it. But I suspect the (really offensive) reason was that the CW doesn’t want to show older women showing skin.

  3. Well, I still did not hate it as much as you guys did. Paula, you recap ‘here’ in NM between 6:00pm and 7:00pm so I watch with what you have to say in mind; my husband watches with me and I ask him various things about what you mention.

    I think Mary is avoiding her sons A) she is just embarrassed by them. THAT bugs me. If Sam was a fancy-schmancy lawyer and Dean successful as an engineer or something (I loved the little gadgets he came up with in the beginning of the show) she would be on that like a cat with cream. “They” know she just does not want to be around them. B) the character has not given out any ‘happy’ vibes around her kids; I remember in past years somebody mentioning (you, Paula?) how Jensen has the acting chops to just ‘be’ a little boy around her ‘physically’ so I look for those scenes and I could not figure out the physical talent that had him ‘show’ his Little Dean. Sam Smith does not ‘physically’ act like ‘mama Winchester’ in regards to her sons in any scene. She walks into a room, but gives them a wide emotional berth. Maybe this ‘is’ a directorial decision? I don’t know. But I feel ‘no’ relationship between the three at all.

    People have mentioned that it upsets them that Dean said he did not like her lies or the BMOL (in The Raid) but that he ‘let it go’ at the end of the story while he told her off at the beginning. It makes ‘sense’ to me that he would want to have SOME kind of relationship with her after all this time. I think he feels that she disrespects his life choices AND maybe the way he raised Sam (for some reason). He told her he still wants the chance to ‘have something’ with her and THAT makes sense to me.

    But the show is not giving her any equal attempts with her sons. At least we saw Words With Friends or Dean texting her. I don’t think they have mentioned any interaction with her the last two episodes. If I was Dean and/or Sam that would PISS me off.

    I could rag on this all day long.

    PS I also think if Dean really wanted to destroy her he could tell her she was ‘spelled’ into loving John, that her whole life was a lie. That her HEAVEN was a lie.

  4. I gotta say this writing group has made JOHN a better parent than Mary. I ‘never’ doubted he loved his sons. I don’t ‘feel’ anything from Mary. Now Sam Smith ‘used’ to show love so I have to believe she is being ‘directed’ to be such a cold mama.

    She would rather SLEEP with Ketch than call her kids!

    1. I disagree. I think there is a lot of love there however. For her Dean is,4 and,Sam is a baby. These men are strangers. They have written Mary as to share different traits with her sons. Sam gets the leaving to work things out from her. Everything else is Dean. She is a natural hunter and it suits her. She didn’t want the life for her children because it is a hard life. Likewise Dean has wanted to steer the “kids”:away from hunting… even Adam.
      The only thing that has made no sense is the fact she is working for the lol and stayed working for them after 2 fiascos that demonstrated they have no regard for hunters. After last night I think she is in deep undercover to learn about an organization that targeted her sons. That is all smart Mama Bear. She slept with Letch to disarm him. She succeeded. He will hesitate before killing her. That’s all she needs.

      As for Dean. He doesn’t trust them at all. He’s going along with it to protect his family. Did you see how he reacted to Letch’s psychopathic hunting. He also noticed Ketch taking the collaborator away. Dean knew that guy wasn’t coming back. They have never killed a human that didn’t attack them in a life or death situation. Big red flag.

      I actually like the,fact that Mary is being written as a character that has a life, wants and desires outside of her kids. It makes sense because her kids are grown men. She can’t cut the crusts off their sandwiches.

      It also makes sense that she cannot live up to Dean’s memories of her.

      1. You are right that to Mary, her sons are still babies, and she has only grasped intellectually that these men are her sons. So her love is intellectual. I think if it was more visceral, there would be more acknowledgement of their histories and childhoods. And if I recall from the past, Mary wanted out of hunting before she ever had a family. She made choices with Azazel that ensured a normal life for her and John even if it screwed her children’s future. And she had the knowledge to recognize it.
        At this point, Mary appears to have made peace with hunting and even likes it, but she is very ambivalent about Sam and Dean, the adults. She loves them, but they are reminders of her past mistakes, and she does not seem ready to face it.

        1. I think it’s intended as a flip on the old “Adult version of a child character appears from the future and becomes a regular character” trope. Awkwardness all the way round as the parents struggle to bond with the child (the writers probably got it from Emma and her parents on Once Upon a Time). That trope doesn’t usually work. This one isn’t working, either. The sad thing is that it could. It’s just that the writers are botching it every way they can.

          I sure hope Mary survives this season and makes it long enough to benefit from a better set of showrunners.

          1. She was working pretty well until they gave her that stupid Purge-style speech. I do think she is playing Retch to keep her sons safe. She lampshaded it pretty hard to him that she puts them first.

        2. Very good points. I don’t think she is running from the truth either or avoiding the fact she is responsible for her sons lives by making that deal. She’s trying to make amends and fix things by hunting. It’s very Winchester.

  5. OK I am watching In the Beginning: Paula, do you think really that Azazel believed Dean when he said that in the future Dean was going to kill Azazel? I just am not sure.

    Boy did ‘Samuel’ do a good job as YED.

  6. I am watching Metamorphosis; there is ONE fanfic I read (again, GEN) called Ghosts of Future Past by Etrix in which ‘right’ after Dean sees Sam use his ‘powers’ at the beginning of Metamorphois he gets a visit from his ‘ghost’ from the future and treats Sam differently in the rest of the episode. It is a GOOD retelling/’reboot’ of the season 4 story line.

    AND it has no sexy stuff to get in the way of the plotting.

    I mentioned this previously but if there is an answer: there are always ‘secrets’ between the brothers. In Metamorphosis Dean finds out that Sam knew in All Hell Breaks Lose Part I that YED bled into Sam’s mouth. This is episode three of Season 4; the secret was kept from Season 2 episode 22. I
    ‘think’ that was the longest any secret was ever kept. IS there a longer one?

      1. Maybe he shrugged and forgot about it. After all he paid his dues by suffering the worst he’ll pain ever.

      2. Oh, I forgot about Cindy McClellan. Yeah, that is definitely the longest-kept secret.

        Jesus, Sam has done some bad stuff. (And yet I forgive Dean for killing every single Styne at their estate. I guess I would forgive Dean anything.)

        1. The Stynes deserved everything they got.

          There’s the secret Dean had that made his eyes bleed when Mary came out of the mirror. There’s that.

          1. I have always believed ‘from the test’ of Dead in the Water that Dean saw YED in Sam’s bedroom before Mary got there and knew it was a stranger and rather than get daddy he went and hid in his closet and THEN he heard all screaming and the shouting and came out and ‘saved Sam.’ When he talked to Lucas about being brave every day for his mom, even though he was scared, he was retelling the story of Mary’s death.

            Now he was 4yo; HE would’ve ended up on the ceiling if he had walked into Sam’s bedroom, but he still believes he should have tried.

            From the beginning of the show he has always had unreasonable goals for himself.

        2. Motivation is everything. Even under the influence of the Mark of Cain, I don’t recall Dean ever killing anyone that didn’t amply have it coming. Sam was horribly cavalier about Lester’s soul in season 10. Now Lester was a creep who would probably have found himself in hell anyway. But that doesn’t excuse Sam’s actions. To knowingly place someone at risk of Hell when you have been there yourself is unthinkable. Even if he couldn’t remember it, he saw the effect it had on his brother. Yes, Sam has done bad stuff.

          1. Sam was much worse that demonic Dean. A fact demonic Dean enjoyed. Lester was pretty unforgivable.

          2. PLUS Sam had gotten him drunk(er) and sort of fed into his anger at his wife. It was a sorta-kinda like Sam was a crossroads demon ‘himself’ catching Lester at a weak moment.

          3. In Sam’s defense, he didn’t actually plan to let Lester go through with the deal. Not so much in his defense, he just rolled with it with a minimum of distress once Lester did.

            Admittedly, Lester got what he deserved, but that doesn’t make what Sam did okay.

          4. Sam didn’t try to fix things after Lester made the deal. He didn’t warn or protect the wife or teach Lester about hellhounds and demons.
            And yes he got Lester wasted and stoked his anger and then sold him an easy revenge.
            Meanwhile D!DEAN was simply Dean on steroids with a much greyed code. I think Carver was very clear on who had the moral high ground all season.

          5. I think Demon!Dean was a Dean who didn’t give a damn and who was constantly teetering on being homicidally psychotic. That was significantly different from “our” Dean, but it wasn’t completely not-Dean. Demon!Dean had the higher ground because 1. he was minding his own business and simply didn’t want to be manipulated or used as a weapon by others, and 2. he was genuinely mentally ill. Things just tilted even more in his favor when he was literally tortured into full psychosis (all so he could become someone’s personal weapon and bodyguard again) and lashed out at his tormentor.

            The story could very easily have been written with Sam as an LoL-style villain, with a few lines changed here and there.

  7. What did everyone think about Lucifer name dropping cray cray Michael again. Anyone else on the Dean Michael cray cray train.

    1. I want Dean’s cray-cray and Michael’s cray-cray to get together and make little cray-cray plot bunnies all over the place. I would totally watch that monster baby.

      The sad thing is that they know for a fact that Cosmic Cray-Cray Dean is *really* popular. MoC!Dean was hugely popular. Demon!Dean was hugely popular. As far as I can tell, they’ve found out the hard way that they can’t do a good show without Jensen Ackles around and when they got the impending Twinkles news, they panicked.

      Plus, at this point, Singer and Dabb still both seem to have some weird resentment about the Dean popularity phenomenon.

      At least Ackles seems to be back on board, enthusiasm-wise, with his announcement that he’ll be directing again next year.

      1. Well. Directing is his plan B as if he would not immediately be grabbed up by another show. I remember that he was first choice to play Klaus on TV. And of course all of that Marvel interest. Sigh.

        If only I am right with my suspicions and not wearing my unusually thick Dean goggles. They are name dropping the Apocalypse plot points hard and fast by this point. The only reason to revisit it is to have Dean Michael. And how else will they defeat Lucifer now that they wasted their golden egg by virtue of Crowley’s ego.

        Of course I will love BAMF mother Mary and Dean turn the lol into chopped Stones.

        For being known as anti Dean Singer and Dabb have no idea how to write Sam or even who Sam is beyond bullet points. It’s so very sad.

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